Sunday, May 12, 2002
Edited by Gloria Lee Highlights Home Page:
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Joseph Riley on Hafiz
Is where the Real Fun starts.
There's too much counting
("I Heard God Laughing -- Renderings of Hafiz" by Daniel Ladinsky)
In honor of Sunday being "Mother's Day" a non-coercive approach to parenting is presented, a movement called Taking Children Seriously. At most, such a totally radical equality might be called nondual parenting. At the least, looking closely at the "control meme" is worthwhile even for non parents. from the FAQ
What is TCS?TCS is a philosophy of non-coercive education and child-rearing. Discussions centre on a paper journal, Taking Children Seriously, an internet List (the TCS List) and a web site (this site), all of which are run by me, Sarah Lawrence, with a lot of help from friends and colleagues.
We believe that it is possible and desirable to bring up children entirely without coercion (i.e. without doing things to them against their will, or making them do things against their will), and that children are entitled to the same rights, respect and control over their lives as adults.
We are critical rationalists, fallibilists and libertarians.
I own the TCS list and the journal. But there can be no official definition of what it means to take children seriously, just as there can be no official definition of what it means to be a Conservative, a Liberal or a Socialist. No one owns such labels. Various thinkers and writers, who want to apply such labels to themselves, simply have to enter the fray in the field of ideas and try to persuade others that their version is true.
So to answer the question directly, who is to decide whether an evolved version is still TCS or not?, the answer is no one. Or anyone who wants to.
sample topics from various journal articles:
In Praise of Ignorance, by David Deutsch Innocence, properly conceived, is a positive attribute. It is the ignorance that comes from a voluntary decision not to engage (or not to engage yet) with a particular area of complex knowledge. Innocence in that sense is essential for all genuine learning. Compulsory teaching is the destruction of innocence, forcing the victims to waste the opportunity, which comes only once in each lifetime, to encounter that knowledge for the first time. It is no wonder, then, that pumping information prematurely into people's minds simply triggers emergency procedures that do everything in their power to shield the recipient from engaging with that information, and that the usual result is the permanent destruction of the recipient's ability to engage with information of that type. How many people have a feeling that there is something rich and wonderful in science, or in mathematics, or in Shakespeare, but that it is somehow inaccessible to them? Is that not a tragedy? If they could have acted on that same impulse innocently, at the moment when they were ready, what then could possibly have spoiled those rich and wonderful areas of knowledge for them? Reader's comment: This is quite simply one of the most important articles ever published. (TCS 31)-----
CIA Brainwashing Memorandum Versus Parenting Books: In this fascinating article, Maria Droujkova points out the parallels between a recently-declassified CIA memo on how to brainwash people on the one hand... and the advice given to parents in parenting books on the other. Chilling! (TCS 30)
Coercion is Not Love: An article about the importance of facing the harm we have done, and the importance of separating the idea of good intentions from the question of whether something is harmful. I am not saying that parents do not truly love their children I think that most do... I am just saying that hurting our children in any way, shape, or form no matter how obvious or how subtle can never be an expression of parental love. ... The fact that coercion and love become so linked in so many ways is itself part of the harm caused by coercion. It is the irrational legacy left to the child, who upon becoming a parent passes that legacy on to his or her own child. (TCS 22)
What Will People Think?: Are you passing the paralysing WWPT hangup on to your children? (TCS 26)
The Taking Children Seriously List is a forum for the discussion of TCS child-rearing/education theory and practice, and for the support of parents trying to make their interactions with their children non-coercive.
"I've recently noticed how the idea of non-coercion has percolated thru many aspects of my life .... eg, my relationships with other adult friends are melting as I change the way I react to those who were coerced as children, continue to expect be coerced, and are thus stiffened against it."
Geesh, I feel like I am visiting another planet being on this list.
words, words, words on NDS
Kir Li Molari
There are different ways to think about nonduality.
There is actually no way to think about nonduality.
What can you say about nonduality that hasn't already been said?
Absolutely nothing has been or can be said about nonduality.
He says this about nonduality and she says that about nonduality.
There are no "he" and "she."
There's a lot of ambivalence about nonduality.
The concept of nonduality is not.
Nonduality is experienced differently.
Nonduality is beyond experience.
Jan Barendrecht on NDS
re: words, words, words
Has the following
about nonduality been said before?
When society finally will reflect the (proven) knowledge
that there isn't a 'me', what now is labeled 'nondual issues'
then will be similar to what now is the phlogiston theory when
talking of oxidation. What remains unchanged will be the
"no nonsense" approach regarding the illusion of a 'me' which
so easily installs in the mind...
It has been said
º no, because time doesn't exist
º yes, because the amount of events is infinite so it must be a repetition
º neither yes nor no because all events, irrespective the labels attached,
are like a fata morgana, fleeting appearances, essentially void of any 'substance'.
Al Larus on NDS
slowly O mind, everything in own pace happens
Gardner may water a hundred buckets, fruit arrives only in its seasonKabir
RichieTo NDS Members, Methinks what is meant; at any point of what we call "TIME", at any place, anywhere and anytime,what is happening NOW, has always been happening, and will be happening forever and ever, andwill happen again and again.There is not anything at anywhere, and at anytime, that can stop any natural event from happening. Scrap all of your plans to build a time machine, it is futile.
Jan Barendrecht on NDS
It's always useful to be reminded of definitions. Regarding time, that's based on therotations regarding the solar system: a matter of observation, then defining. In that respect, terms like "always" and "now" implicitly are paying homage to the notion of timepassing by which is a conclusion, not an observation. Without observation, a statement like "nothing is happening" would be impossibleand when observing takes place, that is what is happening. Philosophies based onexperiences like nirvikalpa samadhi are like trying to describe empty space from theobservation of the walls, inside an empty container. In the same sense that a boiled egg can't return to its previous raw state, returningin time is a fiction, not just because of the laugh to be 'present' before the big bangwent off. Which doesn't mean, that the potential to observe cannot move in any dimension:there are quite a few indications it can as it isn't "fixed" to the location called "body".
Al Larus on NDS We have all arrived safely at the other shore,now we are just watching the replay. ?
Debra Orf on Harsha Satsangh
not far from there
overyonder for three fortnights.
(You know, i don't have time for this...)
in a riot of spring rain
(ok, give me
a break, this is sappy!)
(130 miles an hour, turning the
(curves of the speedway
(zoom zoom zoom
your sap about the misty)
of the water
in a cloud of burning rubber
(better...but you didn't even mention PIT STOPS)
Stan Sambey on NDSWanna chat, or do you wanna act?
Cannot You Find Me?
I am more than any description or combination thereof.
Take my money
Take my Home
Take my Family
Take my Race
Take my Colour
Take my Speech
Take my Clothes
Take my Hearing
Take my Taste
Take my Sight
Take my Touch
Take my Smell
Sundeep on Nisargadatta list
is no freedom in choice. You choose according to the
background you have been brought up in, according to to your social,
economic, religious conditioning. Choice invariably strengthens this
conditioning; there is no escape from this conditioning, it only
breeds more suffering. [...] Choice is always breeding misery. Watch
it and you will see it, lurking, demanding, insisting and begging,
and before you know where you are you are caught in its net of
inescapable duties, responsibilities and despairs. Watch it and you
will be aware of the fact. Be aware of the fact; you cannot change
the fact; you may cover it up, run away from it, but you cannot
change it. It is there. If you will let it alone, not interfering
with it with your opinions and hopes, fears and despairs, with your
calculated and cunning judgements, it will flower and show all its
intricacies, its subtle ways and there are many, its seeming
importance and ethics, its hidden motives and fancies. If you will
leave the fact alone, it will show you all these and more. But you
must be choicelessly aware of it, walking softly. Then you will see
that choice, having flowered, dies and there is freedom, not that you
are free but there is freedom. You are the maker of choice; you have
ceased to make choice. There is nothing to choose. Out of this
choiceless state there flowers aloneness. Its death is never ending.
It is always flowering and it is always new. Dying to the known is to
be alone. All choice is in the field of the known; action in this
field always breeds sorrow. There is the ending of sorrow in
only come about naturally, not through wishing, wanting,
longing. Nor will you find it by creating an image of what you think
it is. To come upon it the mind has to learn to look at life, which
is a vast movement, without the bondage of time, for freedom lies
beyond the field of consciousness."
not a reaction; freedom is not a choice. It is man's
pretense that because he has choice he is free. Freedom is pure
observation without direction, without fear of punishment and reward."
"To seek is to
deny the truth that is right in front of you.Your eyes
must see that which is the nearest; and the seeing of that is a
movement without end....Not to seek is to find; and the finding is
not in the future - it is there, where you do not look.The looking is
ever present, from which all life and action takes place. Meditation
is the blessing of this action...Seeking is a personal drive from the
centre - to attain, to belong, to hold. In inquiry there is freedom
from the very beginning; looking is the freedom from the weight of
"When you live
with facts as they are, not with data produced by the
computer, but observing them, watching your own activity, your own
egotistic pursuits, then out of that grows marvellous freedom with
all its great beauty and strength"
decision to control only breeds resistance, even the
determination to be aware. Meditation is the understanding of the
division brought about by decision. Freedom is not the act of
decision but the act of perception. The seeing is the doing"
The only freedom man has is to strive for and
acquire the jnana, (Self-Knowledge) which will enable him not to
identify himself with the body. The body will go through the actions
rendered inevitable by "prarabdha," (karma that must be worked out in
the present life) and a man is free either to identify himself with
the body and be attached to the fruits of its actions or to be
detached from it and be a mere witness of its activities.
Elizabeth Wells on Nisargadatta list
I walked down the
road about 100 feet to the mailbox on the
main highway yesterday.
There was no one or nothing around.
The split second I
stepped out the door and started
going down the road,
at least 20 dogs of
every shape and color emerged
from nowhere started running circles around me,
playing with eachother, barking and yipping,
rubbing up against me....
blue jays appeared out of nowhere buzzing us ...
suddenly filled the street, yelling "hi, tie my shoe",
sticking their feet out......
just before I
stepped back into the house door from
my trip to the mailbox, I looking down the road,
and it was perfectly quiet, no one or nothing around.....
exactly how it was before I started my treck to and from the mail
FW from somebody:
Did you tie their shoes?
Never can tie too many little shoes.
Or pull too many little trucks out of mud puddles or ditches.
Dust them off and set them on their way.