Nonduality: The Varieties of Expression Home

Jerry Katz
photography & writings

The wind carves shapes into the beach sand

Search over 5000 pages on Nonduality:


Click here to go to the next issue

The Nondual Highlights

Issue #1108
Tuesday, June 18, 2002
Michael Read

Today's posts are from the Nisargadatta list on Yahoo! groups.

"satkartar5" wrote:

I'm new to the non-dualist teaching and want
to learn about it at a"live" forum as this before pursuing. I've the
feeling that the INTENTION
of some seekers is to "beat death" and that is why they do self-
inquiry: to learn
to attach their awareness to an abstract entity which they believe
live for ever?

Do you non-dualists take the teachings
verbatim eg. ego-death means death?
-isn't this gross misunderstanding of
the teachings?

I found this post at a Ramana club; I
think it talks about ego-death, but
there it was in a tread, that it's
meaning was different and the above
question came to me again; the same
person who posted this also sated
that Ramana is alive...


"Yesterday a Swami came and sat in the
hall. He seemed anxious to speak to
Bhagavan but hesitant. After some time
he approached him and said:
"Swami, it is said that Atma is all-pervading.
Does that mean that it is in a dead body

"Oho! So that is what you want to know?" Bhagavan rejoined.

"And did the question occur to the dead
body or to you?"

"To me," he said.

"When you are asleep do you question
whether you exist or not?"
Bhagavan continued.

"It is only after you wake up that you
say you exist. In the dream-state also
Atma exists. Really there is no such
thing as a dead or living body.

What does not move we call dead,
and what has movement we call living.
In dreams you see any number
of bodies, living and dead, but they have
no existence when you wake up. In the
same way this whole world,
animate and inanimate, is non-existent.

Death means the dissolution of the
ego, and rebirth the birth of the ego.
There are births and deaths, but they
are of the ego, not of you. You exist
whether the sense of ego is there or
not. You are its source but are not
that sense.

Mukti (Liberation) means finding the
origin of these births and deaths and
destroying the very roots of the
ego-sense. That is Mukti. It means
dying with full awareness.
If one dies thus one is born again
immediately at the same place with full
knowledge of the Self, known as

"Aham Aham" (I-I). One who is born thus
has no more doubts. "


"dan330033" wrote:

If you are inquiring so as to get something,
you aren't inquiring -- you are repeating
the known.

If you are inquiring because someone else told you
about a realization that can be had, and you
inquire so as to have that realization, you're
simply going after a self-created image in your

Mind and body dropped is the end of inquiry.

Its end is here, before it begins.

Inquiry is not a process.

It is its own ending, before beginning.


"satkartar5" wrote:

hi, the books of Nisargadatta is hard for me to read, I'm saturated
with spiritual literature and developed an aversion to it, plus the
question and answer format is not my rhrytm not my questions etc

Is there a website or club with exerpts about the Prior to
Consciousness, please let me know. The "I am" webpage among the files
here is great. --Is it possible that one doesn't do any "exercise"
just remains centered in his/her essence, I took clearllight acid 20
years ago and all this seems to be known realised, familiar to me,
remembering that awareness gained (and forgotten) during the acid-

Does non-dualist view CONSCIOUSNESS as
- a pool where one tunes in and shares the similarities with others
where has affinity?

- is it preordaned like karma?

- can it be uplifted or only known as is?

- a tool

- the maifestation of being (or the other-way around)

I really really like the here and now thought eg.:
".. the self-enquiry my ongoing process of discovering Reality. The
Reality is not outside of me -- is eternal, in the Present,
everlasting, nondying."

-are nondualist aiming to "stop the rebirth" by eliminating
the 'seed" the form for not "to come back". I don't belive in

-thank you for your time in advance


"hurg" wrote:

you say that you're saturated with spiritual literature and developed
an aversion to it but you're seeking more text on white background?
perhaps a paper book? how about david godman's book on ramana
maharshi called "be as you are"'s an excellent book for all
levels. here is a link that gives you an idea what the book cover
looks like but don't just look for it in electronic form on the net
since this is one book that should be read in paper. it has its own
nondual magic.

after this book, perhaps "i am that" can be the next level.

as to your questions, no one has any answers but you. based on our
ability we create our own myths to console ourselves. remember only
the ego has questions and needs to be counseled of its own
approaching end. since you have dislike for wordsmiths' version of
myths, how about a nondual poetic myth?

no wonder you don't remember being the almighty Universal
Consciousness, nor having the memory of where you were 200 years ago,
nor being born.
did the the dreams of this world veil it as the moving images hide
the screen?
have you been born through so many forms,
and not all the programming been wiped from the memories?
just because you have not yet been reminded you are That
and live in the past,
it does not mean your heart might peek some day from the opening of
this mystery
and see this with wide open eyes


P.S. the above poem is my translation of rumi's sufi poetic myth to a
modern advaita myth.

"satkartar5" wrote:

hi Hurg, I know you for a long time
since I'm an admirer of Kabir and the
sufi poets and saw your website.

The reason I commented about the
Nisargadatta file being great is
because it collected the main thoughts
of him in an easy to navigate format
(and I saw bad selections).

My mind screams when I try
to read his book the I'm, or
while reading question and
answer format (you saw; I've my
specific questions through which
I'm able to grasp a teaching)

--sorry to say it is not possible for
me to read a book at this point
because I speed read especially
repetitious literature and
there is no way of me knowing where
was the coupe lines of importance.

I belive in PRACTICE versus reading
anyway and I'am used to meditate
18 + hours/day.
I assumed, that here I'll
find advanced kind souls who
are learned in Nisargadatta's thought
and can tell me how to do the teaching.


"d_agenda2000" wrote in response to dan330033
who said in part: "Inquiry is not a process."

Well hold on Dan, my friend, take from another "practitioner"
(Douglas Harding interviewed by K. Pillay)

KP: There is a kind of paradox, isn't there, that one has to practise
to be what one is naturally?
DH: Yes, well you practise to really get rid of the illusion, not to
achieve the Reality.

KP: Yes, that is a very important point, because in the spiritual
supermarket that has mushroomed over the last 20-25 years, there
seems to be a constant movement to achieve some extraordinary state,
and you're directly the opposite. Would you not say that we're really
practising only to remove the illusion?

DH: That's right. All of us are living from this. Ramana kept saying
everyone's living from this, everyone's enlightened. Everyone is
firmly stationed, where else could they be but in natural nature, and
the only difference between himself and others is that he enjoyed it
and others ignored it. It's not any different


Anand Eswaran wrote:

Don't associate with the questions and you will
require no answers

"hurg" wrote:

if there is no cost for creating watches out of thin air, should not
sai baba manifest gold rolex watches instead of 'made in china'
if the gurus had any supernatural power, should they not be held
accountable for not bringing the world peace?

isn't the true miracle the fact that no matter how hard people try
there are no miracles and the physical laws never bend?

why do we create myths and *have* the need to believe in miracles?
what function do the myths serve? aren't they very ancient and
affordable methods of counseling for the ego who's facing death?

as much as we feel disgust at the tricks of the magicians, whether
they're hindu sadgurus or catholic bishops, aren't they also adorable
when they take this play so seriously? how the self forgets who s/he
is and attaches to the role...what an amazing performance...we love
it and hate it.


Nonduality: The Varieties of Expression Home

Jerry Katz
photography & writings

The wind carves shapes into the beach sand

Search over 5000 pages on Nonduality: