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#1134 - Friday, July 12, 2002, Editor: John Metzger

The Cosmic Christ calls us to renewed worship : "Come to me
all you who are burdened by lack of praise, lack of beauty,
lack of vision in your lives. Look about you at the starry
heavens and the deep, deep sea ; at the amazing history that
has birthed a home for you on this planet ; at the surprise
and joy of your existence. Gather together---you and your
communities---in the context of this great, cosmic community
to rejoice and give thanks. To heal and let go. To enter
the dark and deep mysteries, to share the news, to break the
bread of the universe and drink blood of the cosmos itself
in all its divinity. Be brave. Let your worship make you
strong and great again. Never be bored again. Create
yourselves, re-create your worlds, by the news you share and
the visions you celebrate. Bring your sense of being
microcosm in a vast macrocosm ; bring your bodies ; bring
your play ; bring your darkness and your pain. Gather and
do not scatter. Learn not to take for granted and learn
this together. Become a people.

Matthew Fox

roger isaacs
Damn... but I must be off topic, the official topic of this news group
is ... donuts? Right?

jan b
As always, that depends on the mind seeing it.
That is why in ancient times, the emphasis was
on the modifications of mind which, once activated,
in their turn destroy the potential for attachment
(hence, suffering in all its aspects).
Whereas these days, mind often is treated like a
fish container. The brand of fish cookies,
accumulated in the lifetime's gathering it's filled with,
is irrelevant, "nondual" a label just as "chicks"..

"modifications of mind" ...
That must sound like porno for "fixed mind fetishists".
Heresy for the "there's nothing to realize" folks.
A lie for the "peeling the onion" reductionists.
As everything = God = Love, ignorance is Love too!


What special properties do HUMANS have among mammals?

Gene, what is the simplest possible way to say it?

I can only begin to understand what is presented on those sites
intellectually. The first two sites are by far the most accessible,
because they are concise models of what you are getting at.
Personally, they appeal to my visual sense and do not require as
much 'sorting'.

What happens if I take those models and overlay them with the content
of recent posting?

(Diploid ---> Haploid ---> Diploid ---> etc LIFE+)
How does what was / once one / And become two / Communicate with

IT retains the link, so to speak, informationally and vibrationally.
As IT dictated the structure from the beginning, by cloning itself
exactly, this is easy.

The phrase "insurance policy" just popped into my head.

<inserted from later in Gene's post>
The Beast
who suckled
her young

Knew one
who knew

Of the nature
of the Spirit
<back to your regularly scheduled quotation of Gene's post>

There is a question that is lurking: "why does shame enable the
control of other people?" The following is not an answer to that
question, only a clue to an answer:

Well, the phrase "you no good, ungrateful kid" comes to mind.

While looking for a birthday card for a colleague, I began
thinking of this man as a boy and infant and suddenly found myself
washed over with a tsunami 'thought': perhaps some people have
children because they feel indebted to their parents. This is a
complicated thing - that someone would think "Someone did this for
me. I must pay them back by doing it for someone else." Ok, I'm not
explaining this well. What does it take to explain this well? Oh - it
is the lineage thing? That unless children are produced, all parental
efforts put into 'you' is wasted. Only, it is not something that is
thought about at all. There was a second trailing tidal wave of how
having children would be greatly relieving to some people, getting
rid of the guilt, though perhaps they would call it fulfilling. (They
have stopped resisting what they had been generated to do.) This was
all very confusing to me. When the thoughts first hit me, I thought
this tsunami thought a foreign thing, but the more I swam in it, the
more I realized that the water was not washing over me, it was
flooding out from me. The 'thoughts' apply to me afterall, I guess.

How did what was / once one / Communicate with itself / When it was
one? / How does one communicate with itself?
The unseen yet very real / "spirit" / which all mammals / share /
by virtue of diploid reproductive strategies

Spirit / Unseen / Yet real / Misunderstood / for eons

Will we ever come to grips with it directly?

I was hoping we all at NDS could have a conversation about exactly

I was going to add ",putting aside emotional...", but then I stopped.

What if, instead of banishing it, we grabbed that emotion and rode it
until it squeeled to us the truth of the matter? This would simply be
another expression of the intellectual conversation one might have
that would lead one to the very same conclusion. The plus of those
two conversations existing side-by-side is that one will uncover
ground that the other would probably not reveal and vice versa.

So, what is the topic at hand? And how does one best contribute?

The Beast
who suckled
her young

Knew one
who knew

Of the nature
of the Spirit

This one
is called

Or She-man

the ancient
traditions of

A man dressed
as woman

Who knows
the Spirit

the ancient



Sharing of

Shared with
ritual imbibing

of The Sacred
Amanita Muscaria

sHe eats it first
and then urinates
in a special
ceremonial bowl

which then is passed to the populace
of the village

as they are gathered
in a large dark
sweat lodge

each drinks but
when each urinates
the urine is caught
in the bowl and

The sharing continues

Sharing continues



the entire community
is aware

of one

of self

as one



A riot ensues
a sexual riot


It is
the Shaman

carries self

One self

between seasons...

To Have... or Not to Have
Fewer of us have kids today, but debates about childlessness still touch a nerve.

Nina and freyjartist

Hello Nina :))
That is what i noticed as well...that everyone seemed so emotional.
I was saying to myself, hey, everyone, lighten up a little.
Yes, when there is a disproportionate amount of reactive energy, I
wonder about its origins.
It is interesting how Kheyala refrained from
getting into the fray and elegantly exited so that she could
continue to do her thing where there is no contention about it.
She could have stayed and duked it out, fought for a cause,
furthered the drama, but she demonstrated that all she really
wants to do is to share in her own way with those who are open to
it and embrace it. Or so it is perceived here.
I have a choice here. I can decide to stop using Kheyala as a poster
child for what she represents to me. (And, for that matter, stop
using Gene as a poster child for what he represents to me.) What do I
do about this? It is so easy to keep using her person instead of
trying to understand why what she represents to me is so powerful.

That said, I wish Kheyala, the person, had not exited. (Who is to say
that she has at all? <s>) Perhaps it is a good thing that the drama
was not furthered, but why does it need to be seen as drama? What if
it were simply one person posting, another person responding to the
post, and that first person or perhaps another responding to the
response, the responses gradually building understanding? Ah, but
maybe rupture can be seen as part of building understanding, too.

What is the essence of conversation, anyway? (This is a real question
to myself.)

I find that when I feel attacked, for whatever reason, I lose the
ability to be available for conversation. Sometimes it just takes a
deep breath to return to enough stasis to see through my gut
clenching resistance to hearing my most honest voice and hearing the
real message behind what was spoken to me. I have to clear away my
bad feelings before I can get back into the groove. That takes time,
and sometimes it looks and acts really ugly.

The fact is that, despite all the wigglings around 'disidentification
with the body' (be it flesh or something more subtle), in this
moment, in my perspective, this body (my flesh, my thoughts, my
feelings, my...) does exist, if nothing else than as a vehicle, and
it is something I have to take into consideration. I try to give
others that leeway, too.

Which brings me to this question of 'how to communicate'. Do I throw
out what issues forth from me, hoping that there will be someone out
there who 'gets it'? Or is there some way of feeling out my audience,
and reaching out to them with how I write what I write? I know there
is a lot of interesting tension that plays between those
two "extremes", and somewhere in the middle there could just be a
moment of saying "yea! what they said!"

I am beginning to wonder if perhaps it is much much more difficult to
observe/see/whatever HOW one communicates than it is to
observe/see/whatever WHAT one communicates. And when the issue is
HOW, and all anyone can see is WHAT, then what happens?
Gene Poole is the moderator and he can do as he pleases,
i am in no place to judge him. He always made a lot of sense to
me, that is why i was a little surprised this time. But, hey, life
is full of surprises, init?

I prefer to take it as an opportunity for exploration...
However, i agree 100% with Melody (i think) who said something about
allowing the list its own self-regulating intelligence.

I cannot see anywhere where the Kheyala posts were doing any harm
I can see one place.

I want to hear the perspective of "Ananda".

I also want to know why it is acceptable for "Ananda" to remain
voiceless except for the voice given her by her mother.

(I do not wish for the above to be personal, I hope that we can begin
to find other words to represent the things that Kheyala and Ananda
are representing.)

In combination with what Gene is pointing to with the questions about
how a body/bodies communicate with(in) themselves (the
diploid/haploid piece), here is some of what is forming my concern:

I have memories of events that happened as early as 1-1/2 years of
age in my life. They were not formed by photographs, influenced by
conversations with adults or manipulated out of me during therapy.
Most all of these extremely early memories are of times when no
adults were around. I am eating dog biscuits with my dog and am
surprised when other kids didn't want any. With another toddler, I am
dragging a "giant" damp doll across wet grass to deposit it in the
carriage swing of the swingset. The thought patterns are different.
The motivations are different. The decision making process is so
clear! I recall exact moments of saying to myself "I can't do this
anymore, it is not beneficial for me." I know these memories to
be "mine", and yet, they are memories that belong to "a different
person". Who was this person, who have I become, and how?
And by making a big deal about really did get a life of its
own. It has been made more enticing. It's like when you tell your
kid something like watching a certain show is verboten--well,
naturally that show becomes more enticing and the child's interest
about it climbs. Which is fine. But it would seem to me that this
matter could have been approached differently.
I am choosing to see that the issue at hand is not verboten, rather,
there has been a call to look at it more deeply.

Why am I thinking of a conversation with a friend about worker-owned
businesses? Because worker-owners must somehow get out of the notion
that they can be "not responsible for" the outcome of their jointly-
owned business. They have to get out of the mindset that "someone
else will do it." In order to succeed as a group, each individual
must constantly say "I have to do that right now." That's really,
really hard in a world where things are about "rights" and
not "responsibilities"... and where people are so used to just
sneaking by at work for others... doing the "half-assed job".

I guess what I am saying is that not being responsible for what I am
posting is what is verboten. I have no right to post. I only have the
responsibility in posting.

So, then I can ask myself: for whatever gift I have that I want to
share, and for whatever talent I have for sharing, how can I take
responsibility for it?
Did it seem as the Adventures were taking over the list somehow?
Did Gene look at it as some kind of contagious virus to be
contained before it spreads and infects everything around it?
Maybe he sees something i don't (sincerely). Perhaps unseen friends
are orchestrating matters for reasons we are not privy to.
Perhaps all of the above. My sense is that it doesn't matter. :)
As to the real meat of it for anyone else, i dont know, i have no
idea. You are right, it's probably not really about Khelaya and
the style/content of her posts. Perhaps all it is is that a good
shit-kicking drama is needed once in a while!

But i wont create more concepts about why, for
it is not really possible to get oneself out of one concept
(illusion) from within another concept. Unless, of course, the
concepts will be used for digging only, and then tossed.
Yes, we are in agreement. This is the digging stage. Everything we do
on this list is the digging stage. When I am not digging, I am not

On that note, enjoy your weekend. :)

Thanks for the message..

John Duff
Center of Friends

Gill Eardley spiritual-friends


A young and rather boastful champion challenged a Zen master who
was renowned for his skill as an archer. The young man demonstrated
remarkable technical proficiency when he hit a distant bull's eye on his
first try, and then split that arrow with his second shot. "There," he said
to the old man, "see if you can match that!" Undisturbed, the master did
not draw his bow, but rather motioned for the young archer to follow
him up the mountain. Curious about the old fellow's intentions, the
champion followed him high into the mountain until they reached a deep
chasm spanned by a rather flimsy and shaky log. Calmly stepping out onto
the middle of the unsteady and certainly perilous bridge, the old master
picked a far away tree as a target, drew his bow, and fired a clean, direct
hit. "Now it is your turn," he said as he gracefully stepped back onto the
safe ground. Staring with terror into the seemingly bottomless and
beckoning abyss, the young man could not force himself to step out onto
the log, no less shoot at a target. "You have much skill with your bow," the
master said, sensing his challenger's predicament, "but you have little skill
with the mind that lets loose the shot."

Be Kind With Yourself
The key to spiritual practice is not in following instructions, but in acting with warm-hearted intention.

By Shunryu Suzuki

Excerpted from "Not Always So: Practicing the True Spirit of Zen." Copyright 2002 by San Francisco Zen Center. All rights reserved. Reprinted with permission from HarperCollins.


A Buddhist Drunk

By William Alexander

From "Cool Water: Alcoholism, Mindfulness, and
Ordinary Recovery," copyright 1997 by William
Alexander. Reprinted by arrangement with
Shambhala Publications, Inc., Boston.

sandeep yearning (link may no longer be working.)

Dave Mason livejournal

(extract from)....The Shoes of Wandering
by Galway Kinnell

On this road
on which I do not know how to ask for
on which I do not know how to ask for water,
this path
inventing itself
through jungles of burnt flesh, ground of ground
bones, crossing itself
and the odour of blood, and stumbling on,
I long for the mantle
of the great wanderers, who lighted
their steps by the lamp
of pure hunger and pure thirst,
and whichever way they lurched was the way.

The Wanderer Ludwig Angerer

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Nonduality: The Varieties of Expression Home

Jerry Katz
photography & writings

The wind carves shapes into the beach sand

Search over 5000 pages on Nonduality: