Jerry Katz
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Nonduality Salon (/\)

Highlights #193

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from Urwa Ibn Adhina:

"I have discovered - and exaggeration
is not in
my nature - that He who is my
sustenance will
come to me.

I run to Him, and my quest for Him is
for me. Were I to sit still, He would
to me without distress."

I tend to take a middle-of-the-road stance. "He who is my sustenance"
must be met halfway. Sitting still, one may sit a long time, feeling
forsaken and alone. This is no better than the agony of the quest.

With Love,


'Meeting halfway' is doing whatever it takes to create an open space in
mind and heart where I may consciously receive the sustenance, always


To me, sitting still means 'abiding all things'.

That's my half of the deal. Then Grace is free to do the rest.

I'm simply recognizing these days where I've been falling down on the

I'm seeing my resistances, my avoidances, my refusals,
all those spaces where Grace is not allowed to flow.

Sitting still, abiding all things, is simple. It's not always easy,
though, is it?

Thank you for sharing with me, Tim,


i love that quote from Adhina, Melodearly, thank you for posting.

Reminds me of a little ditty from many years ago.

When we are ready, He comes.
Searching, seeking, choosing
invitation patterns in vain,
Unceasingly putting our house in order, needless even a whispered

We have swept the carpet, cleared
the cupboards, thinned the closet,
purged the unnecessary: collector's items.
And one day He will judge,
Enough! lay down your dusting cloth,
my dear, prepare us a pot of tea,
and come sit by me.
I have a wonderful gift to give to you....
Yes, when we're ready, He knows.
He comes."


dear Gen,

I sat with your response to my posting about my brother
last night, looking to see just how I might be saying silently
to my brother, "you are not me".

I realized this is showing me that I'm afraid to experience anything
completely without some measure of 'holding back'.....this coming from
a family of alcoholics, as I do.

This 'holding back' has no doubt kept me functional in a
world so outrageously disfunctional, but I can see now that it is
this 'holding onto the rail'...this trying to stay steady, that keeps
me from jumping fearlessly into my Beloved's arms.

I see that there is a thin line between mental illness (of which I
consider alcoholism part of) and Awakening..

When one makes that 'jump' ....that final 'letting go', I really don't
know which side of that line I will fall.

Simply knowing this about myself seems to make a difference, Gen.

Thank you dear heart,


I can see it so clearly now....

I'm seeing all the ways I 'hold onto the rail'....ways I would
find to 'break away' from the disengage.....
and to numb out....

For most of my adult life I smoked. I would lite a cigarette
the moment I began feeling anything too intensely....especially

When I quit smoking, I used food the same way.

Today I'm noticing that when feelings get too intense here
on the computer, I break away by standing up and going
into another room....busying myself with something else.

It's here. I see it. I see how I fear being 'swallowed up'
by something so much bigger than I.

I've discovered I have the courage to see my face, and to
show it.

But do I have the courage to *feel* all that I am? Do I have
the courage to be swallowed by bliss, rather than simply
tasting it now and again?

Do I have the courage to become "intoxicated by the bubbling
spring" ?

I realized that for me, courage means being willing to know
just how afraid I really am.

Now I know. Now I am terrified.


this is a poem about nothin'
or somethin'-- more journal than anything.
melody got me to thinking about poetic madness (mental illness) and
awakening, so i dug through some old writing and found a few that i'll
pass along. i believe this was the breakdown before last :). why i
love poems? perhaps because poetry transcends the margins!

gen looks both ways
", , ,and all the believing univere cannot transform anyone who isn't
into someone who is." --e.e. cummings, Eimi

i say
there are bad exits and then there are
bad entrances. curious,
i've peered through both portals,
seen my breath on both panes,
checked both places-- yes-
there was pulse-- flesh.

You say
i am a dancing maniacal fool,
ah, yes--
to the rhythm, dance-dance,
not close to, but right on the edge.
your veins my dreams
pulse-curse blood--- demons.
i am *thought*
by some odd, and some of the best
people are, or were, or shall be.
And normalcy is, after all,
only hand-clenched security
to a girl who makes love to
want-ing-be-ing. cradling
heart-beating-small-fieldmouse. tiny
eyes stare black-blazes--
pleading, piercing back needing.

turned round
i look into your eyes
and i don't know you.
i, who have flown-flown
with the crow and called
to the ever expanding grey sky
in alien languages try
to feel just-like-that. how you
are when you're laughing or
smiling, what you are when
you frown. i've tried
to inject myself ,
small, and crawling,
into your every body-else-type
and i was lost and alone amidst you.
(to be continued). . .

more Curfew Breaker by gen

Where is your beat beat beat?
Where is it? I , rattling
snall and rough and hard--
shook-soul astonished, struck
by your immensity.
Crackle! a spark in the
vastness-- the desert was here?
Ticks of your clocks and watches-- past
and future spaces. . .
no now?

Back beat
i look into the sea
and i know now
i feel just-like-that.
scuttling along, or lingering
on the crusty floor, submerged
in sea garden, flowing forest, and
i find my own kind. gape-glide-looking
for light, who cares the atmosphere?
into a branch, stalk or
vein of sea wall i conform,
and it is here that
i appreciate my own complexity.
it is simple.

I am a small idea on
a big planet and it is here
in a redwood grove,
here on a rocky hill side,
here, in the very deep-deep
of the sea that i find
there isnothing to want,
to buy, to steal, to hurt. . .
there are no reasons to rise
to the morning
except for the being alive.
i say
there are bad exits and then
there are bad entrances, but
there are those soft, hesitant,
remarkably painful

here where the, flashing, red, green,
of, shark, incisors, lights,
and, lightning, smoke, sink,
into, puffs-- ebbs, urged,
on, by, electric anemone.
in the sky.

here is
a tank
with a fish
from the store.

that said, i plunge into
the sea , and it is as if
i never knew the air.

-- gen berlin
episode from the '80's

Several of you have viewed my recent posts as condescending or arrogant.
In all honesty, I *have* been speaking from a position of arrogance and
condescension lately. Ego is a sneaky little bastard, and just when it
seems to be most in abeyance, often it is most active. The motivating
force that drives me to post here is love, yet motivation doesn't always
translate to results. Therefore, I owe the list a sincere apology, and
will try to keep a closer eye on ego. That little bastard is like a
chameleon, changing color just when you think you have seen it for what
I love all of you as myself, and post here to try to help both myself
and others. Lately, some of my posts have been counter-productive.
Whoever pointed that out has my deepest thanks and appreciation.

I have certainly had my share of judgments, but this kind of recognition
and self-awareness is the greatest antidote. Speaking for myself and
perhaps a few others, being caught up in the ego is an easy thing to
allow to happen even if absolutely the stupidest choice, from the point
of view of someone who understands the real natural state. I am reminded
of a line from Bruce Cockburn, remembered probably inaccurately: "All of
this glory shining all around, and we're all caught taking a dive."

Thanks Sarlo and Tim, for pointing this out. The thought that being
caught up in the ego (for lack of a better way to put it) cannot happen
once the natural state is understood, is an act of that very 'ego'
itself. The beauty is in the understanding of what one is, always,
eternally, in spite of all the things we get caught up in. I call it:
"Looking Again, and Discovering Again". Isn't it beautiful?
With love,

Very interesting and powerful reflections today on the individuated
feeling body of the body Being.

We are learning how to be community of One.. which includes, it seems,
how to commune in the full spectrum of where we find ourselves right
now. That Melody and Kristie and Phil have felt marginalized.. that I
have at times wondered at my place here as well.. is, it seems to me, a
delightful opportunity for us to examine the habituated mindsets we
contine to carry with us... even after 'realization'.

I am moved to learn that you Kristie, have not felt welcomed.. I find
you such a bright note and feel a strong kinship with you. I love your

I am glad that you, Phil, have returned with your spunk.

I am saddened to learn that you, Melody have received these labels
*alone*.. by 'alone' I mean.. they apply, at one moment or another, to
so many of us, that all I can say is that you are in good company... we
are all children growing up.

"too serious, unhappy.....still yet a child.....someone who possessed
neither the intelligence nor the experience to be able to handle this
Salon, or to learn from it. I heard someone say that I didn't have the
maturity to be here."

.. and in the 'growing up' or waking up.. seems to me that some of the
above needs to be understood from within a very different context.

As Tim, whose opened heart I stand within, has gracefully offered

> Remove the subject and object and only "Relationship" remains. This is the
> core of Nonduality: Remove the subject from the equation first. Without
> subject, object vanishes, having no perceiver. At that point there is only
> perception. Remove the lover, and the beloved vanishes, and only Love
> remains. Remove the perceiver (the "me"), and the perceived world of
> objects vanishes, and only perception remains.

and I'll add.. remove the 'taunter' and the pain is released. I am
learning to 'hear' with different ears.

Still.. I prefer the compassionate approach to dissolution and give
thanks for that here.


Ashtavakra Gita is at


Dear Jan,

Do you know of any so-called "primitive" cultures where the "I"-idea is
not present? Or is the "I/you" distinction universal to all cultures?

I realize this is somewhat a loaded question, since the "I" is wrapped
up in many things... body identity, language, identity with a particular
family group, etc... I'm wondering if "I/You" came into being when
spoken language first came into being, or is it prior to that?

Thanks for any clues,


Dear Tim:

I'll jump in here if you don't mind. Your question on "I" and language
is discussed extensively in a book titled "The Origins of Consciousness
in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" by Julian Jaynes. He makes a
quite radical proposition about the nature of consciousness and its
development. You might like it.

As for "primitive" cultures I can speak a bit to some aspects of tribal
consciousness in the individual, although it may not answer your
question. I'll leave that to Jan. Interacting with tribal people is very
different. It is impossible to know what it would have been like to
interact with a pre-eureopeanization native on this continent but I have
known several very Indian Indians and there are striking differences
.......I cannot speak to the concept of the "i" in them because it's not
something they talked about.....this is the most noticeable difference
...the very non-controlling, utterly respectful of others' autonomy and
personal space manner in which they spoke and acted. The lack of
meaningless patter and personal dissertations on the state or nature of
anything.....where beingness and action speak volumes and words are
considered rather unneccessary.......a total comfort with silence need to fill time or space with candor, no
word games, guile or deceit in personal interactions, but tremendous
humor generally offered as a teaching. I will give you an example.

I have written here before of my friend Michael Whitefox and our salmon
fishing venture when I was homeless in rural Oregon. My partner and I
had some difficult times and when Michael sensed that, he never spoke of
it, he would draw a big circle on the ground and hold a bandana out to
us. The first time he did this I had no clue what he wanted. But we
walked up to him and he tied the bandana around our knees and gave us a
slight push. My partner and I had to hold onto each other to keep from
falling and we laughed at the suddeness and unexpectedness of the
situation. Michael grunted and said "Indian wrestle." So we did. When
the laughter had died down he retrieved his bandana and said "better to
play than to quarrel, better to hold on and help each other stay up,
than to help each other fall."

Feathers and hides and beads and such are currency in the streets. We
gathered them in the woods and traded for them and made Indian art and
little gifts for each other and people we loved. We also sold them to
stores and people when we could for a couple of bucks here or there. One
day as we came into the park in Cave Junction we found a crow feather in
a tree...and then another one....and another one....for a week, everyday
there were crow feathers in the trees. One morning we came to the park
earlier than usual and I saw Michael slipping around the park and
planting these feathers. He never bothered to explain why he was doing
it. But I remembered that during the preceding week he'd always been
parked under a tree while we gathered crow feathers, watching us and
smiling. I think he did it to amuse himself and to please us and maybe
to remind us that abundance grows in trees if we only have eyes to see
it or the vision to plant it.

I read once some stuff on linguistics and the Hopi language. The
language is curiously lacking, as I recall from my reading, in time
referents. I remember being struck by the fact that the word, for
example, for thunder, had no modifiers if it was a long thunder
storm.....the word was just carried out for more syllables......the
experience of the thunder was expressed rather than formed into verbally
discrete patterns that separated time from the thunder itself. I also
recall a passage on honesty: they wrote that to the Hopi their words
were no different than their arms or their legs....they were simply an
extension of their spirit to lie was inconceivable, to
warp the nature of the being was an incomprehensible idea to the
traditional Hopi. My personal experience is that there is a lot of
"lying" that happens...but it's more in the nature of storytelling and
pulling your leg, never in the sense of personal deliberate deceit. I'll
tell you another Michael story another day.

Love, Kristi


I do think of us as a community. And if we ever found
ourselves gathered together, something like the following
might be appropriate for someone to read. It does speak of
burden, and although I know many here have passed
successfully through life's fires and found clarity in the
one moment, there are many still passing through those fires
and carrying burdens. Thanks to John Metzger for posting
this on the Allspirit list:

The Cosmic Christ calls us to renewed worship : "Come to me
all you who are burdened by lack of praise, lack of beauty,
lack of vision in your lives. Look about you at the starry
heavens and the deep, deep sea ; at the amazing history that
has birthed a home for you on this planet ; at the surprise
and joy of your existence. Gather together---you and your
communities---in the context of this great, cosmic community
to rejoice and give thanks. To heal and let go. To enter
the dark and deep mysteries, to share the news, to break the
bread of the universe and drink blood of the cosmos itself
in all its divinity. Be brave. Let your worship make you
strong and great again. Never be bored again. Create
yourselves, re-create your worlds, by the news you share and
the visions you celebrate. Bring your sense of being
microcosm in a vast macrocosm ; bring your bodies ; bring
your play ; bring your darkness and your pain. Gather and
do not scatter. Learn not to take for granted and learn
this together. Become a people."

Matthew Fox

Dear List,

Certain sections of Jerry's Nonduality FAQ intimate that nonduality sees
the subject-object relationship as false. In many ways, the precise
opposite is true -- Nonduality sees the subject-object relationship as
true, and the subject and object themselves as false!

Remove the subject and object and only "Relationship" remains. This is
the core of Nonduality: Remove the subject from the equation first.
Without subject, object vanishes, having no perceiver. At that point
there is only perception. Remove the lover, and the beloved vanishes,
and only Love remains. Remove the perceiver (the "me"), and the
perceived world of objects vanishes, and only perception remains.

Remove the barrier between life and life (the "I") and the two are
reconciled as Life. Not-Two. There is no subject, no object, only
Eternal Relationship, a solid block of Reality without division.

Anyone else have anything to contribute to the "subject-object
relationship" idea?

With Love,


Kristi wrote:

I think sometimes the list is very threatened when someone exposes their
process or their though the mere existence of turbulence is
a threat to serenity.......I have rarely felt welcome the
sense of being loved or understood or that there was even much desire on
anyone's part to love or understand me.......but I keep coming
back.....because I think my process does offer insight to those who want
to hear it and aren't afraid of it.....behind my struggle and my
"suffering" I am a strong and very wise person......I know that even if
it remains a secret to others......


My first thoughts after reading this were, "I'm amazed you don't know
how much your posts are appreciated here", and then I couldn't help but
smile - remembering how Glo had spoken those very words to me only days

One think I've noticed before - but has become even clearer these past
days - is how our threads, our thoughts, our challenges all tend to
interweave if each voice helps to write the song.

I look at how so many different voices from here these past few days
builded upon the other, and led to the sound that finally broke open a
knot in me.

Yours is one of those voices, as is Phil's, and Gen's, and Christiana's
and Jerry's, and Tim's ...

all of you who have offered your voice to the topic of marginalization.

This place is indeed perfect....even in its disharmonics. I love how
both you and Phil have voiced your intention to stay....even when
feeling ignored or unwelcomed.
You're a teaching in Gene's word, 'abiding'.


Hey everyone. I went to a talk by Tony Parsons today. For some time now
I've been chatting with Anneke every now and then(she's from the
Netherlands too, maybe some of you met her online). She lives in
Amsterdam and I live in Alkmaar, we're about half an hour apart. We
decided to get together on the first opportunity.

So when I got an E-mail last week about Tony giving a talk in Amsterdam,
I decided that would a good moment to meet.

Meeting Anneke was very nice. I 've seen posts lately about people who
have seen each other on the filelist, and were *not* surprised, because
they looked just was expected. Well in this case, Anneke knew what I
look like, and I did not know what she looked like. But as soon as she
walked in, I knew it was her. We had a very nice chat (live, this time)
for one hour and then we attended the talk by Tony.

Listening to Tony was great. He speaks about Advaita in a very relaxed,
calm, humoristic way. We all entered the room and he waited till
everybody was seeted. Then he began looking around for a while. After a
few minutes of silence he suddenly said: "I don't give speeches, you
know. Where I come from, people start asking questions, and I give
answers..." That broke the ice and what came next was 3 hours of energy

One of the questions was: "How about romance? Can you still fall in love
after realization?" "Oh yes, you fall in love with Everything...." he

I had never heard of this man before, any of you?

And oh, he has a book out: "The open secret"

Love to hear from you,


Xan to Melody:
Now, I ask you freshly,
Who is seeing all this?
Who is questioning your courage?
Who is terrified?
It is a felt answer.

oh to Xan:
Now, i ask you stalely.
Who is asking Melody these questions?
It is a suede answer.


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