Jerry Katz
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Nonduality Salon (/\)

Highlights #212

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Millenial reflections

Christiana: Tonight while watching the
spectacular PBS planetary
celebrations, I saw beauty in the eyes
and smiles of races of faces
and expanded my heart in ways I had
not thought possible.

Living as we do, in a time when it is
more the norm to be cynical and
dubious about what our future as a
planet and as a people might hold,
today's World Festival has released a
healing force which might *yet*
have the power to eradicate the wounds
and set right the course for this
collective relation-ship.

We are now conscious of the time difference from where we live to
Auckland and Samoa. We have witnessed in one 24 hr period a succession
of gracefilled celebratory ritualistic NOW moments. I have never felt
the Presence of the Living One so powerfully expressed.

May the First World Party be repeated endlessly!
*** Melody : one particularly poignant moment during the PBS
celebration.....when Nelson Mandela walked into his jail cell of 18
years and lit a candle of reconciliation with the past. It inspired me,
and perhaps thousands of others, to light my own (as ceremony)
from within my own prison cell of the past.

Just as the facets of Self were reflected in the the
facets of Self are reflected in the voices on this list,

I had a sense of Self ....simply expressing as a larger Whole.

*** Mira: Indeed we ended 300 years ago, and 200, and 33 and 1 year
ago. Just this second ago I ended again, only to start again......? It
happens every instant, every millisecond, we end, we begin, we end, we
begin. Perfect heartbeat. Silence perpetuating its manifestation. Now we
are, then we aren't.

"To be or not to be"............ wasn't that the question?

*** Sarlo and Amiyo: Just moving through this moment as the millenium
arrives, just feeling the vastness of how all of us as a species are
transforming, has been one of the profoundest experiences of my life. I
really feel what a moment this is for all of us; how Y2K has in some
ways been a metaphor for what the whole planet is facing: just watching
the internet the whole day as country after country has informed us that
they & we are OK has filled me with so much gratitude that we seemed to
have managed it: we seemed to have expanded our consciousness enough to

*** Phil: I was watching Larry King interview the Dalai Lama just a
while ago. Mr. King asked the Dalai Lama if the millenium was something
special in the Muslim religion (implying that the Dalai Lama was a
Muslim). His Holiness paused for a long moment and stared. (The delay
was chalked up to satellites!)

Harsha: Thanks Phil. That is one of the best and funniest things I have
heard! What a way to end 1999 for Dalai Lama! But surely the Dalai Lama
must know a little about other religions to give a reasonable answer.

I don't know whether to laugh harder at Larry King's question or Dalai
Lama's silence. God bless them both.


Significance of the number 108

Greg Goode: To Jerry and all beloved NDS'ers -- to the frequent
post-ers, the seldom post-ers, the lurkers, the ones signed on by
mistake, and the ones just about to unsubscribe...
Happy NOW to you all!!

Just came back from two Buddhist ceremonies. First, 7pm at the NYC Shin
Buddhist Church, a candlelight ceremony, where we hit the large gong 108
times, 2 times per person, (the remainder of the 108 struck by the
priest). We also chanted, meditated, and each lit a candle held by a
cut-out piece of paper with a leaf of a Bodhi Tree photocopied onto it -
symbolizing wisdom and compassion.

Christiana: ... and noticing the number 108, which you have now
mentioned twice, wondered... can you say what the significance of that
particular number is?

*** KKT: The number 108 is frequently
used in Buddhism. For example, a
mala or string of beads that is used
to count repetitions in the recitation
of mantras and the name of Buddha
has 108 beads.

I think the origin of the use of this
number is that there are 108 "passions"
or "defilements" (jap. bonno) which
obstruct the path to the attainment
of enlightenment.

*** Harsha: The number 108 is considered sacred in Hinduism as well. I
can't remember why right now. All the Malas (Rosaries) have 108 beads.
One turn of the Mala involves repeating the mantra 108 times. Mantra
evokes a particular sound, a feeling, and a shakti deity arising out of
consciousness. It is said to be make one aware of one's divine nature
and for many people it is a natural path. Repeating the Mala a certain
number of times is said to confer mantra siddhi in the proficient use of
that mantra.

***Andrew: 108 signifies completion or perfection.

The angle between legs of a pentagon is 108 degrees. The golden section
(phi, the ratio 1 : 1.618) can be derived from a pentagon or 5 pointed
star, the spiral generated using this ratio is the spira mirabilis, seen
throughout nature. (eg in a snail shell, a sunflower,

108 is 2 to the power of 2 times 3 to the power of 3.
108 is said to be the number of auspicious signs by which Buddha is
In Chinese tradition there are said to be 108 bones in the human body.
There are 108 stitches on a baseball.
Sanscrit was supposedly once spoken using 2*54 or 108 basic phonetic
There are supposed to have originally been 108 Upanishads.
There are 108 movements in Wu and Yang style tai chi forms.
The atomic weight of silver is 108.
Some people believe there are 108 boddhisattvas on earth.
108 is somehow connected to ancient lunar calendar and to the lengths of
the yugas or cosmic ages.
Man is supposed to have 108 evil passions.

*** Xan: ~ also 108 = 9 x 12

nine is the "mirror" number. add any number to 9
and reduce that to a single digit. It will be 9.

9 is also the number of completion of cycles.
Drop a stone in water and watch the 9 ripples outward,
then ripples back inward begin.

12 is said to be the number of variations of energy forms on Earth.
12 tribes of Israel, 12 rays of vibratory energy combining to form
the myriad expressions within manifestation.

9 x 12 = bringing all expressions to completion through mirroring.

*** Harsha: Can I add one more? Jerry sent this to me telepathically.
He wants 108 girlfriends.

*** Old_Hag:~~i heard a Tibetan lama, when asked what the 108 beads on a
mala meant, say that that was to count 100 mantras, and the 8 extra was
in case you messed up.

Life can be rather simple, if you want it to be. More fun, ya know?

*** Jan: The number 108 could be called a yogic number.
The holy trinity is buried in it: 1^1*2^2*3^3
The sum of the digits, 9, is the number of "gates" of the body
Dividing 108 by 2, (54) the sum of digits still is 9 and dividing
another time by 2, (27) it still yields a sum of 9. Then dividing by 3,
the sum of the digits of the quotient is 9. It isn't too difficult to
see the number 108 as a kind of symbol for the entire "course" of
Kundalini in the human body, a course "through" 1, "ending" at 0.

If the sum of the digits of an even number is 9, after division by 2,
the sum of the digits still is 9 and 108 is the first 3-digit
occurrence. If the sum of the digits in a number is 9, dividing by 3
yields an integer. Another interesting occurrence in the series is 144.

Jay and Jerry on nonduality and organization

Jerry: Now that I think about it, the combination offered here,
freedom of expression and the subject of nonduality, is
powerful. On the nonduality website and on lists such as
Advaitin, and almost every other list, there is some attempt
to organize nonduality.

There's no moderation here, because it is not for me to
organize nonduality, rather to be 'organized by' nonduality.
(The meaning of 'organized by' is largely what the list is
about.) And maybe that's why people feel this list community
has a life of its own, even to the point of being called a 'Guru'.

Jay: I was and am still guilty of attempting to organize nonduality. How
can I organize something that, as Jerry put it, is organizing me? The
explanation is simple: I'm trying to organize something that I've
imagined is real and, to begin with, I've objectified my imaginary
nonduality! (Objectification makes it possible to organize something,
right?.) How screwed up is that?

Hmmm... I've objectified something imaginary, so that I can make all
kinds of references in imagined experience in order to apprehend my
precious, imagined nonduality. One day in the future, in my little
spiritual hall of mirrors, I've imagined that I have at last
apprehended my imaginary nonduality and, voila!, I'm enlightened! The
only problem is that it is a mere reflection of something imagined in
the first place. Oh man, somebody get me a doctor! I'm chasing a tail
that I don't even have!

Jerry: The idea of being organized by nonduality, to me, means the
de-organization of conditionings, the breakdown of fear.

As that de-organization (is that a word?) proceeds it is
evidenced as a unique path. The path is unique because the
organization of conditionings is unique. We're screwed up in
our unique ways.

So each person's path is unique. Each person's unravelling,
or de-screwing (now that's not a word, but it would be a
great method of birth control) is unique, because the
intertwining of conditionings is unique.

It doesn't mean a person ends up a big zero. There is still
personality, humanity. What 'being organized by nonduality'
means is allowing fundamental nature to be known. If
anything, it means de-organization.

Once de-organized, or liberated, could one then attempt to
organize nonduality into a teaching or approach? Yes, though
it would appear to be an engagement with a corpse.

Miscellaneous gems

Neo: You are what you eat, including other's thoughts.

Xan: ~ You are also what you reject, but with indigestion.

Col: Seems to me ego just gets thinner & more transparent.

Dan: Beautiful statement, Col.

By this woundedness am I healed.
Precious wounding, the breaking of
the spheres of perfection.
Deep-seated wound - the ending of limitation
Is there horror and fear in here?
Is there hurt and pain in here?
It will out, it will out.
It shall breathe.
And in breathing it is done.
Projection injested and digested.
In breathing, I am done.
Out breath, in breath, no breath.
Sacred death of fire, death of no-death.
When all is done, no breathing left.
No performance to give.
The wounding, the incompleteness -
is All.
This original hurt, when I identified "me"
When body came to be --
This hurt is the universe.
When time stood still, the hurt dissolved
into the All it was, and is, all the time.

And All is Love.

On striving and intention

==Gene Poole==

How does one who succeeds in giving up striving, strive to help others
give up striving?

Melody: Such a One doesn't.

A light does not strive to illuminate the world.
Nor does it have the 'intent' to give warmth to those who are cold.
It simply shines because it is its nature to do so.
If a question remains, if striving remains, one has not 'succeeded' in
giving up anything. They have only succeeded in trading one shiny bead
for another.

*** Harsha: This makes sense Melody. Although some say that it is the
nature of the Boddhisattva to strive to help others. Paradoxically, both
perspectives seem logical.

One could suggest that whether a question remains or striving remains
does not seem directly connected to "success" in giving up -- if the
point of view adopted is that there is nothing really to give up and
there is no one to give it up. As far as trading one shiny bead for
another, I would agree with the appearance of the futility of it. But
who can say for sure? With 108 beads, one can make a lot of trades. A
lot of good trades. And I wonder whether the focus on the "other" simply
trading one bead for another (while one has given up all the beads and
is therefore bead less) might not be the hardest bead of all to part
with. If one truly is left without the perception of ownership of beads,
can the point of reference to distinguish between the bead holders and
bead less remain?

Perhaps to be truly bead less is to be headless. What can one truly see
then? Who can really say?

*** Xan: ~ I would say it is the nature of the Boddhisattva to help
others effortlessly, by presence first and by action sometimes.

*** Kristie: I am reminded of Khalil Gilbran's (sp?) line about the lily
of the valley: that it gives of its scent simply because it has it to
give....that is its nature... as light illuminates without the need for
intention....perhaps some people's light is about providing what is
needed to whoever needs it.....effortlessly and without intention,
without striving,....that is their nature.......BUT to be hung up in an
identity or invested in the worth of oneself as such a person is another
matter entirely.....

Joshua: appearing in the guise of competitive dialogist

Phil: The trouble is that all perspectives are "valid" from the point
of view of the puppet show, even Hitler's. "Points of view are equal"
is another point of view. One attacks, one defends.
One gets tangled up in his strings.

Joshua: Why does One get tangled up in the strings?

In my humble opinion, there are two kinds of being awake: unconditional
and conditional. Non-dualists seem to enjoy talking about being
unconditionally awake. I am just pointing out that conditional
wakefulness is also available. Conditional wakefulness is to understand
how competition works.

Col: It is to you. But I see what you mean about being both manifest &
unmanifest at same time. I appreciate my ego now after not wearing it
for a bit. :-)

Phil: If you "understood" competition you would not be talking about it
all the time. If everybody "understood" nonduality this mailing list
would not exist. When there is no "I and you" there is no competition.

Larry: So, what is competition?

Joshua: Competition encompasses the dynamics that control the quality of
separation or non-separation between individuals.

L: and why is it important to you?

J: Because I prefer the quality of non-separation. :-)

L: You seem to be headed in the direction of awakening in and to the
world rather than "reclusively". Is this correct?

J: I did the reclusive path already. It works! Learning how to
surrender like water is worthy knowledge, but it's not enough. How many
years will it take for some fool to trigger a nuclear war? I think it
might be fun to have grandchildren.

PS ... tune in tomorrow for the continuation of the following inquiry

Colette: At present I am learning (or is it unlearning :-) the
difference between I Am (whole) & the mistaken notion that I am my
personality. There seems to be a core Amness devoid of individual

This is the Impersonal God.

I also want to clarify for myself, the difference between a core amness
(I Am That) a differentiated witness, and the constructed programmed

Jerry: I'm going to try to corral David Hodges and see if he can
help, as I recall a conversation with him on this.

~~~~~~~~~ As the World Turns.. on NDS ~~~~~~~~~~~~

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