Jerry Katz
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Nonduality Salon (/\)

Highlights #230

Click here to go to the next issue.

This is oh's first time at
Highlights so have taken liberties.
don't be calling the ACLU on a
helpless old woman!


Dan Trying To Explain Very Simply To
Michael About Not Using Words

M: If we are to stop using words to
define concepts, to understand our
life and our existence..... why is
this list here?

D: We are not to do something, such as
stopping using words to define
concepts. Seeing beyond and through concepts is "primal seeing" where
knowing is being, and what is known is no "other". Such seeing is
"already the case".

Taking your question as "why are words exchanged here if "That" is
beyond any of the words?" : Words are exchanged as love, as a form of
touching, as gesture from "here" to "there", knowing that "there is
already here" and gestures are manifesting Love itself, in Itself. Other
reasons why: curiosity, to confirm, to assert, to display doubts, etc.

Without words all posts would be empty.

D: If seeing is now beyond words,
all posts are empty, as are all
perceptions "within" space-time.
Such emptiness is simply "nowness".
Nothing needs to be done.
Space-time events apparently "unfold"
as pure nowness, and nowness is
ever undisturbed.

M: Please help me to understand.

D: It is obvious from your posts that
you will receive as you give -
from who you are. This is already the
case and needs no "help". Nonetheless,
a response to your query:
Understanding comes from "who I am".
"Who I am" and "Who You Are" is
originally, essentially, truly
"not-two" - appearances don't
disrupt this "primary not-twoness".

>>>The appearance of a
"believing mind" that exists
in this body or that body seems
to obscure. Therefore, relinquishing
beliefs appears to be useful
in this "understanding" you
ask for help with - an
understanding that has no
objects, and thus is not "other"
than this immediately here -
(with no objects, it has no space,
so where "else" could It be?)
Only beliefs/perceptions create
the impression of any "something
other" than That which is always >>>>already the
case (no-thingness).
-- Love --

Roger Replies to Petros Also About Words But With a Berry Twist

P: Yes, you raise a very valid point, I think. It is indeed important to
address the particular needs of individuals, as you note.

R: A favorite example about this:
Imagine you are eating a strawberry and someone is sitting with you who
has never tasted a strawberry. Is there any way that you can transfer
the essence of your taste experience verbally to your friend? No way!

This points out how concepts & words always fail to capture essence. The
written or even spoken word is always very limited because information
content is lost when the boundless experience is reduced into concept,
and then more information is lost when the concept is reduced into word.

Most or all of us on the quest rely, at first, on information from
various Sages. But we have to _realize_ (pun intended!) that this
information is very limited. At some point we have to take this earnest
search for the Ultimate Reality beyond reliance on authority, even the
beyond the inward authority of our own memory & past experience.

If I had to choose one word to describe this process for me it would be:
stillness. The title of one of Barry Long's books: "Stillness is the
Way". But while advertising that book I should probably say that I like
"Meditation: A Foundation Course" better. And because there are many
different approaches to Spirit, I'd expect that only a percentage of
people will share my particular interest.


Phil Expreses His Allergy to Berry Verboseness

P: I am lately getting the unmistakable impression that the purpose of
all this "nonduality talk" is to induce vomiting. Most of it is truly
indigestible. Perhaps that's the point: the Wordless.

After hurling: great Peace. ;)


Jan and Neo on Love - Where's Phil?

J: When love is, "I" is not; this is probably the most frequent
experience that yet escapes attention.

N: Love is the core of I. All is love.


Larry With a Link to the Yoga Sutra Translated by a Stripper, Bruce with
a Surprise Answer

L: If you've never read the "Yoga Sutra" here's your chance:

It's the stripped down version. It usually comes with commentaries. The
translation is interesting; by someone named BonGiovanni. Anyone know
anything about him?

B: Believe it or not, he's a
Sai Baba devotee (if it's
the same person I know of).

Petros With a Church For the Rest Of Us

Ed's Note: Lots of Laughs

Terry With A Suzuki Quote

A short excerpt from "Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind," by Shunryu Suzuki,

According to traditional buddhist understanding, our human
nature is without ego. When we have no idea of ego, we have Buddha's
view of life. Our egoistic ideas are delu- sion, covering our buddha
nature. We are always creating and following them, and in repeating this
process over and over again, our life becomes completely occupied by
ego- centered ideas. This is called karmic life, or karma. The Buddhist
life should not be karmic life. The purpose of our practice is to cut
off the karmic spinning mind. If you are trying to attain enlightenment,
that is a part of karma, you are creating and being driven by karma, and
you are wasting your time on your black cushion. According to Bodhi-
dharma's understanding, practice based on any gaining idea is just a
repetition of your karma. Forgetting this point, many later Zen masters
have emphasized some stage to be attained by practice.


Jan Comes Out of Samadhi To Describe It to Larry - Harsha Comes Out of
Samadhi To Agree With Jan

J: It can't be clear to everyone; it is to those who experienced
samadhi. Nirvikalpa samadhi and deep, dreamless sleep have in common
that there are no thoughts, no sense-experiences. The difference is that
in nirvikalpa samadhi, only awareness is whereas in deep dreamless sleep
the awareness is veiled. It is possible for all veils to dissolve, or to
be awake independent of the vicissitudes of mind-body. In practice this
means the mind-body has undergone adaptations as not to veil awareness
in any way. The label "adaptations" can be exchanged with transformation
or transfiguration but it refers to the same.

H: The relationship between the sleeping, dreaming, and the waking state
is discussed in depth in Advaita Vedanta. The purpose of such an enquiry
is to discover the underlying continuity of consciousness in all states
of experience.
Nirvikalpa Samadhi is a yogic samadhi beyond visions and various
savikalpa samadhis as only pure awareness without an object or a
reference point remains. Ramana Maharshi has extensively addressed
questions of various samadhis and Kundalini Shakti and their role from a
Jnana perspective.

"Be As You Are" is an excellent compilation of Sri Ramana's
conversations by David Godman in which various topics are categorized in
individual chapters. There is a chapter on samadhis and Kundalini Shakti
as well. I highly recommend that book along with the classics (Talks
with Ramana Maharshi and Day by Day with Bhagwan).
Probably any book with Ramana's words in it will do.


Nora Offers an Innocent Non-Poem About Splashing Around and Starts All
Kinds of Trouble:

N: not a "poem", simply a statement of where i am today
Floundering and lost in a sea of fantasies and Fear I am about to go
When over the horizon appears
The Great Island of LOVEIAM
Swimming toward it i find the entrance to the harbor Is well protected
by impenetrable(to me ) barriers I begin to swim around the island and
find A large tree of Self Inquiry hanging over the edge of a low cliff
Grasping the lowest branch i am able

To pull myself to the edge of the cliff

I am safe
(until i fall off the cliff into the damn sea again!)


Gloria Responds to Jan and Skye About Fears on Spiritual Path, Reveals
Experience That Was "No Big Deal"

I wonder if the fear of losing all of this, consciousness,
identification, even life itself is not the reason so many use death as
a descriptive word for such experiences. I mean we all rather easily
give up consciousness in order to go to sleep, but this fear of union
feels such a real plunge into the unknown...anything might happen,
anything seems possible.

Something like this happened to me back in '83, long before I had any
knowledge of eastern religions or meditation states and it was
bewildering and frightening to me. Mostly because I could not stay
awake, so it was this obliteration of consciousness that Skye mentions.
That translates into the fear of giving up control kind of automatically
for me. I considered myself a Christian, tho a very ordinary, mostly
below average one.

Although I had my experience in the context of an intense longing for
God and I cannot after the fact account for any reason to have assumed
union might result in death, it just felt that way at the time. This
immense presence
was simply present, and along with love and awe and surprise I felt
considerable fear. I know that ego goes into panic mode at the very
notion of surrendering one's will... when it seems really possible to
happen and imminent. I also had a thought of how it would mean
abandoning my children if I died. The last thought I remember having was
sorta like, "Well, if you can't trust God, who would you trust?"
And then there really was some obliteration of consciousness and no idea
of time, then next I was like..well, what do you know..I am still
here..and the funny thing was I didn't feel strongly one way or the
other about this result.. sorta relieved to have survived it, seemed
like I had misplaced my will and ego and couldn't find them for a while.
I did feel very much at peace and more loving than usual,
but not especially blissful or thrilled like I would have anticipated,
more like I had been struck by lightening, been thru a shock. More than
love, I experienced this immense power and it simply was not like
anything I might have imagined or wanted.
Over the next several weeks, my will and ego gradually made a comeback
to normal ..and this seemed regrettable to me, tho not much I could do
about it. It had been actually easier living without strong preferences
one way or the other and just going about taking care of my kids, I
didn't mind anything cause it was all the same to me, not boring same
but equally fine.

My senses were sharper and the beauty of everything struck me, but that
is a familiar state brought on in me by gratitude. The main surprise to
me in the long run was that this didn't automatically change me
that much... (I kept hoping...) and out of fear of bringing it on again,
I gave up for some time the silent prayer thing I had been doing. No way
did I want to repeat this anytime soon, not that I would have had a clue

It was a couple years before I found someone it felt ok to talk with
about this experience. Partly I worried people would think I was plain
nuts either way, if I claimed to have some real encounter with God or
chalked it up to a panic attack type thing.

Partly since I didn't understand it myself, especially how it happened,
but I mostly didn't want just anyone's interpretation. The only frame of
reference I had back then for anything like this was it was either a
temporary accident, an unusual mental fantasy I brought on by somehow
being too intense or some kinda mystical thing, like those Catholic
saints I'd read about, and I sure am no saint.. but either way I wasn't
going to risk telling anyone.

I was still glad it happened even if I
couldn't make any sense out of it and eventually decided it didn't
matter what caused it and it didn't need a goes on. If
anything, it illustrates how totally unprepared our culture is to help
us understand such least it was then from where I was
in it. It wasn't until I ran across the book Spiritual
Emergency about 6 years later, that I found information about other
people having similar events. I wish I had a teacher then to just say it
was no big deal, keep meditating.

Identification is possible as long as there are feelings. Confrontation
with suffering evokes compassion despite absence of "I" and the "fact"
or "knowledge" that there are no "others". The "I" thought is but one
identification, "I" as the doer, enjoyer, sufferer etc.; the "me" meme.
The "I" thought has everything to do with emotional memory. Pure
awareness has no feelings, perhaps that much is clear - what isn't clear
is that the mind-body doesn't have to interfere with that in any way.
Which is possible, when all "conditionals" have been transferred to
"memory for events", only to be recalled when required. This includes
"conditionals" like breathing.


Jan and Dan Getting Hot With Each Other

J: The wraps do have a nasty property though: they will only burn one
after another and each time a wrap has been completely burnt, one thinks
"this is
it" and of course it is, but "with" the next wrap... So the fire has
to extinguish by itself, when all wraps have been burnt.

D: An apt description of the nature of temporal experiencing. Like many
of your other metaphors - starkly beautiful in its
solitude and stillness - burning away as an empty fire.

Another Response (Influenced by the 70's Every Popular ..
lalala...Feelings.... ...oh,oh,oh...Feelings....lalala) to Dan:

Identification is possible as long as there are feelings. Confrontation
with suffering evokes compassion despite absence of "I" and the "fact"
or "knowledge" that there are no "others". The "I" thought is but one
identification, "I" as the doer, enjoyer, sufferer etc.; the "me" meme.
The "I" thought has everything to do with emotional memory. Pure
awareness has no feelings, perhaps that much is clear - what isn't clear
is that the mind-body doesn't have to interfere with that in any way.
Which is possible, when all "conditionals" have been transferred to
"memory for events", only to be recalled when required. This includes
"conditionals" like breathing.

Ed's note: Thank God!

Terry Blasts With Suzuki Again:

"Everything is perfect, but there are a lot of improvements to be made."


David Quoted 84 - 84! Profound Passages from the Tao Te Ching, Known For
Its Succinct Wisdom. One is Below.

When beauty is abstracted
Then ugliness has been implied;
When good is abstracted
Then evil has been implied.
So alive and dead are abstracted from nature,
Difficult and easy abstracted from progress,
Long and short abstracted from contrast, High and low abstracted from
Song and speech abstracted from melody, After and before abstracted from

The sage experiences without abstraction, And accomplishes without
He accepts the ebb and flow of things,
Nurtures them, but does not own them,
And lives, but does not dwell.


And, Finally, Dan and Terry Engaged in a Very Long Exciting Discussion
on Karma and Love, Very Little of Which oh's C&P Could Retain. Below is
All That Came Forth From ControlV.

D: Karma

T: Love

D: --Love--

T. Aloha



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