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#3193 -
Nonduality Highlights - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NDhighlights
In issue #3189, responses were invited to the
following blog entry located at http://lifeislikethat999.blogspot.com/2008/06/misty-perception-question.html. A few responses were sent directly to the
Highlights editors, and a few were posted to the blog as
comments. The reader contributions are very much appreciated.
Thank you. Here's the blog entry, followed by the responses.
Hello,
I've been studying the philosophy of Advaita,
Buddhism and Taoism as well as trying to find a cognitive shift
in my perception so that I can experience the world as non-dual.
One night I read something regarding the question of truth. What
is true and what isn't? Should we proceed from the standpoint of
everything being false? An illusion? Something clicked in my mind
and the next day I was experiencing extreme panic attacks and
have been ever since (that was a week ago).
Now when I look at my fiancee I doubt her existence
and feel a flooding of panic that is overwhelming. I also feel
this with everyone else as well as objects, time and existence
itself. I know that this is an odd question, however, I was
wondering if you have any insight into how I should proceed.
Thank you for your time and expertise.
Response to anonymous contributor:
The panic attacks you are experiencing coincide with
the meditative realization of emptiness. Prior to meditative
awareness we accept at face value the doings of mind. Once
meditative absorption is attained it becomes apparent that
consciousness configures the world of appearances; just as
consciousness, when dreaming, creates the world of dreams.
Although the rules of both states of consciousness are different,
from the vantage of the witness of consciousness (meditative
absorption) it can be seen that both worlds arise in
consciousness, and are non-dual, and without inherent truth.
There is no secondary vantage from which the arising in
consciousness can be validated. The world of dreaming and the
world of waking are non-dual in that for both states there is a
singularity that does not correspond precisely to whatever there
is out there beyond consciousness. What is beyond consciousness
is an ineffable and eternal mystery.
Considered from another perspective if all that you
view has no inherent existence on its own side, indeed having no
side of its own, then you as the perceiver also do not have any
essence of validity or truth on your side. Although you as the
perceiver may not have been directly aware of the impending death
of the egoic self, with its ongoing story in consciousness,
certainly subconsciously you are very aware. Hence, the ‘flooding
of panic’ when doubting the existence of your fiancé, and
by inference your very own being.
With further meditative exploration, and enlightened
guidance, you will resolve the death of the illusory self in
consciousness with a permanent turning about in the seat of
consciousness, and simultaneous emergence of the greater Self, or
God realization.
Edward Plotkin
The Four Yogas Of Enlightenment:
Guide to don Juan’s Nagualism & Esoteric
Buddhism
It looks from here like
experience already *is* non-dual. There's never stuff "out
there" without awareness "in here", and there's
never awareness "in here" without stuff "out
there". Have you noticed? It's like two ends of a stick -- I
can't pick up one without also getting the other. I can divide
the stick into two ends conceptually, but not in reality. If I
try, by breaking the stick in two, I just get two sticks, each
with two ends. :)
However much you doubt
the existence of your fiancee, or objects, or time, or existence
itself, do they disappear? The experience here is that reality is
stable. For the most part, it continues doing what I have come to
expect of it. Apparent people continue responding in the ways
they always have. Apparent objects continue behaving according to
the "laws" of physics. Life goes on. Whether I doubt or
believe, the show continues.
Sometimes panic arises in
awareness, sometimes it doesn't. Whatever happens, awareness is
there watching. One way of looking at it is that "You"
and "I" are just more thoughts appearing in awareness.
Another way of looking at it is that you and I are the awareness
itself in which the thoughts, the objects, the ideas of time and
existence all appear.
Which is more
comfortable? Which makes more sense? In the final analysis, what
else is there except to find the point of view (the story) that
helps you survive, and find a little comfort and pleasure along
the way?
--- end comment ---
Also consider, was this person screwing around with
his psychological state by "trying to find a cognitive shift
in my perception"?
Maybe, but so what? isn't that the sort of thing
people do? Will passing a law get them to stop? Organisms seek to
alleviate their own suffering. They're always looking for a
better deal. Some win the lottery, some don't. It's just how
nature works.
Is "trying to experience the world as
nondual" the new LSD or the new TM or the latest Carlos
Castaneda spar with reality?
Perhaps, but again, so what? Fads come and go. Do
you expect that pattern to stop or change?
Thank you for the opportunity to participate.
--Tom Barron
Inquirer: I've been
studying the philosophy of Advaita, Buddhism and Taoism as well
as trying to find a cognitive shift in my perception so that I
can experience the world as non-dual. One night I read something
regarding the question of truth. What is true and what isn't?
Should we proceed from the standpoint of everything being false?
An illusion? Something clicked in my mind and the next day I was
experiencing extreme panic attacks and have been ever since (that
was a week ago).
David: If you proceed
from the standpoint that everything is false, then you too are a
fake. I would not start there, for obvious reasons.
Besides, you cannot know
yourself or what the world is through thinking.
Only real sincerity
- or a very silent mind - has the power to descend into
deeper levels of consciousness toward non-duality.
That descent takes place
in the same knowing that gives rise to the perception of
this world - so you can neither attain knowledge about this
world, nor can you be released from it.
The world arises in
and as your Self. From what vantage point could you possibly
"know" it? From what vantage point could it be said to
be an illusion?
Until you
realize your Self, the world will remain an
untrustworthy bunch of inanimate and animate objects. So
forget about the world. Look at your life, at what's happening
there, not what's going on in your intellect.
Besides, like water
rolling off the back of a duck, your real existence, which
is not in time, will spurn every conclusion you make about
the world - or yourself - so why bother with
all that silly mind-stuff?
Learn to become
transfixed by the beauty of this world. That's real sadhana,
real spiritual practice, not plotting how to go beyond it.
If you passionately want the experience of going beyond
everything, then you must learn how to meditate. There you
will obtain a one-way-ticket to the Absolute. It's quite a trip
and I highly recommend it. You will most likely need
help and guidance from an Awakened Being to learn meditation,
unless it comes to you naturally and without effort.
Inquirer: Now when I look
at my fiancée I doubt her existence and feel a flooding of panic
that is overwhelming. I also feel this with everyone else as well
as objects, time and existence itself. I know that this is an odd
question, however, I was wondering if you have any insight into
how I should proceed. Thank you for your time and expertise.
David: Everything, tree,
rock, bird, human is inherently insubstantial or empty. That
is a fact. But that does not stop a bird from
flying or feeding its young, does it?
It's none of your
business that your fiancé doesn't exist! In her
feeling she exists, just as you exist in your feeling, so just
continue to enjoy the relationship for what it is. All
relationship is just a play of feeling, including
the world.
Responses by
David Spero / http://www.davidspero.org
Here are a few responses
posted to the blog itself:
Tim said...
From here, this is
a normal thing to happen when one is taking oneself to be
transient, unreal, born to die and the world as real, permanent,
and external.
What I'd say to do now is to realize that your Being is what's
real, and the world exists only due to your presence in it. Now
that you've "unrealized" the world,
"Real-ize" yourself. Note that you are always 'here',
no matter where you go, that it's always 'now' no matter what the
clock says. You are timeless and spaceless awareness, the
Foundation of all that is. I'm telling you a truth from my own
experience - don't be afraid of the world going away. It is
*you*, your own presence, and that's what you cannot lose. Good
luck...
J said...
Cease trying to
find a cognitive shift in perception so that you may experience
the world as non-dual.
Instead, just experience the world with awareness. Right now. In
this moment. Oh, and in this moment, and in this moment.....
POP!
I AM.
...and THIS moment is truth.
Alfredo said...
If he/she is able
just to witness the panic attack is great, at the end is just an
experience that pop-up in the awareness and this can be use to
confirm that he/she is just the witness of this and not the ideas
that he/she has.
Point that during the panic attack there is a part of her/him
that he/she is sure about the panic attack and not under panic so
free from it.
But if instead if he/she is not able to sustain this and swept
away by the panic attack just stop reading, find a quite place in
the nature , lovely friends around and enjoy what it seems real
but is not.
Then I suggest reading also some book about Perennial Philosophy
or some Ken Wilber books ( i,e Integral Psychology)
With the reading that she/he is doing you can be exposed to the
presentation or idea of higher state of awareness, towards Soul
and Spirit, but you can also activate lower problem in the Mind,
some people look for the Void because they have already some
“hole” in their psyche
Note : all of this are relative terms and not absolute by ”
I “strongly believe in an “false” hierarchy of
awareness and understanding need to climb the ladder before jump
into the Void or the Suchness.
If there is problem in the mind :as example part of the Ego
(voice) that is afraid to “die” or never been able to
be exposed and now has been activated and taking control
producing this e behaviour, I suggest a meeting a transpersonal
analyst for a good check up.
Meanwhile Since you are Buddhist try to see if you can have
access to Big Mind /Big Heart DVD of Genpo Roshi and do the
exercise with her/him, this could help clarify some hints about
“hidden” voice and help her/him to be be more aware
about what is inside .
Last things go to a doctor and ask for general check up to verify
that the body/brain is not out of some balance.
Hope that help
Last but not least give a big human hug to her/him.
Anonymous said...
Of course you are
in a state of panic. Temporary that is. You have just peeked at
the true nature of reality and it is very different from the
ego-illusion sleepwalk you have been walking around in all these
years. The ego will not go without a fight,however, even if it
means causing the body/brain extreme discomfort in its struggle
to maintain control. Trust me, you will emerge from this
temporary period of struggle refreshed and if not fully
enlightened, then at least with a perspective much closer to your
true nature than you were before this experience.
Christine said...
Don't know if what
I have to offer will help at all, but I have experienced the same
thing. With each new awareness/opening of the Real "i"
would experience intense anxiety and panic attacks. Try to learn
to embrace what you feel, sit with it, observe it and don't cause
yourself more suffering by trying to figure it out in your mind,
or panicking over your panic. It is only your conditioned
thoughts that are reacting to your experience - ie: it is not the
experience itself that is causing you this emotional pain, but
what you are *thinking* about what you are experiencing.
What I also found extremely helpful was a book called The Mandala
of Being: Discovering the Power of Awareness, by Richard Moss
(www.richardmoss.com) It was only after I started reading his
book that my intense experience of anxiety (which I have
experienced for nearly 6 years by the way) subsided. Richard's
book is about being in the NOW (the present moment) with
*everything*. At times when we fall back into egoic consciousness
with fear and panic I discovered that it is helpful to have some
practical ways of dealing with it - while you are attempting to
embrace it. Richard's book offers those practical ways. Check it
out, it just might be what you need at this moment.
Also, you might want to check out a guy by the name of Leo
Hartong. He also takes questions through his website and his
answers have been quite enlightening through his newsletters. His
web address is: www.awakeningtothedream.com
One other comment :) It is easy to get entangled in the esoteric
as well. Don't try to "force" anything. Let it all
unfold naturally. And don't focus your attention so much on what
is illusion and what isn't, what's real and what isn't. Don't
make those distinctions, because then you get caught in the
duality again and just keep running in circles like a hamster on
a wheel.
Hang in there! :)
Christine
tomale said...
Your case reminds
me of what happened to Hume the philosopher when he realized--or
at least thought he had--that everything is unreal. He got scared
too.So he got the hell out of his study and went down to the
billiard room and started shooting some balls.This calmed him
down considerably.
Also--don't take yourself so seriously.People get on this path,
have a little insight and right away start in with the painic
attacks--it reminds me of the phenomenon of hysterical
pregnancy.Calm down boy, you got a ways to go yet before you have
to get shook up about losing anything.
http://lifeislikethat999.blogspot.com/2008/06/misty-perception-question.html