Jerry Katz
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Nonduality Salon (/\)

Highlights #331

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¤Or it be the identification with everything? Or is this the opposite
¤side of the same coin?

When the potential to identify has burnt out, there is no more remembrance
of identification, in the same sense that when the least identification
("I") has burnt out, the sense of "I" can't be remembered anymore. Without
the "I", issues regarding self are irrelevant and without a potential for
identification, issues regarding identification are irrelevant.

The same goes for liberation and bondage, nirvana and samsara. Without the
"I", there is no one in bondage nor liberated: the issue has become
irrelevant. That is why sometimes it is said that liberation consists in
the destruction of the mind: all issues will become irrelevant which isn't
the same as becoming ignorant of these issues. Their factual knowledge
resides in memory.

BTW, a onepointed mind will "burn out" most easily as it can be compared to
a magnifying glass that will always concentrate the heat, no matter its


>However, it was apparently real, as it was an
>experience for you. What you resist persists,
>so instead of trying to stuff it in a corner
>I'd take another look see.

D: I like this part a lot:
*what is resisted, persists*
Wonderful - sums up a lot
of what happens in therapy.

Also brings up for me the curious
part that resistance plays in manifestation.

When something becomes something by resisting
itself, resisting its own "no-thingness",
what kind of thing is That?

How is no-thingness resisted?
Only by a belief in thingness.
How does a belief in separately
existing things arise?
Only through self-deception.
Why is there self-deception?
Only so there can be manifestation.
Why is there manifestation?
So the 'no-thing' can 'do its thing'...

End of conversation with self,


The wise know this - All is One.
Whatever comes, pleasure or pain, is a gift.
The giver the receiver and the gift are all one and the same.
Until you are ready to accept this you are lost.
When you accept this you are truly lost!

hot tea
cold morning

>From the Heart of Awakening - Mu

Some thoughts: Heaven and helling myself.

Thoughts appear. I tell a story about the thoughts; when I judge a
thought as good, I heaven myself and when I judge it as bad I hell
myself. Example: There is no truth here. This thought is bad; it
frightens me. I am not at peace. I just helled myself.
There is no truth here. This thought is good. I'm so glad that all
this stuff cannot be real. I'm free, etc. I just heavened myself.
The bottom line is I do it to myself. I do everything to myself.

Another example: Every belief I have, I made up myself. this is a
bad thought. I want some beliefs to be True, so I can believe in
something greater than myself. I helled myself.
Every belief I have, I made up myself. this is a good thought. I am
bound by the beliefs I made up and I can unbind myself ; the power is
within me. I heavened myself.

Nothing in duality can be true and that's the truth. :-) Mary


>why do we keep on
>asking for an answer that isn't there and simply realize that THIS IS IT ?

We're not convinced.

>Do we need this movement of thought to cover up the underlying silence ?


>are those patterns simply recurring because they are imprinted as such in
>the brain tissues.

That's another way to look at
the same phenomenon.

>Why do we get involved with socalled *spirituality* at
>all ?

Hoping for something or simply being.

>I am much more inclined these days to say that spirituality is just
>one of those famous inventions of our mind. Why not simply deal with our
>day to day stuff ?

That is spirituality.

-- Dan --

It seems that at least in the West, the whole guru model is changing
towards democratization and decentralization. The age of the guru might
become the age of the friend. The show-biz aspect of the guru-disciple
model is diminishing. Not only are there more teachers with less charisma
and personality firepower. But the teachings are also available through
websites, books in the local bookstore, and friends. Without podiums,
spotlights, crowds, adherents and devotees etc., more and more people are
spreading the same teaching that a select few used to have to trek to
remote areas to recieve. It's happening in prisons, homes, via e-mail,
over the telephone, and in coffee shops.



Greg: "I don't believe anything, even this!"

I don't think you really believe what you said, unless
you (your mind) have already directly experienced the
ultimate truth (and then believing is unnecessary) or
you dispair of ever finding it (and then you are an

I think for all of us whose minds are still "on the
way", believing a teacher and his words is an
unavoidable start and support.

For example, you must surely believe "I am THAT"
(or else believe "I am this body-mind").
Is there an any other alternative?

Indeed Nisargadatta warned against beliefs:

"Stop imagining, stop believing. See the
contradictions, the incongruities, the falsehood and
the sorrow of the human state, the need to go beyond."

"Leave it all behind you. Forget it. Go forth,
unburdened with ideas and beliefs."

But he himself started by believing his guru:

"My guru, before he died, told me: "Believe me, you are
the Supreme Reality. Don't doubt my words, don't
disbelieve me. I am telling you the truth, act on it".
I could not forget his words and by not forgetting, I
have realized. "

And he asks his listeners to believe him:

"Believe me, you will not regret."

"If you trust me, believe when I tell you that you are
the pure awareness"

And advised us to believe ourselves to be free already:

"Liberation is not an acquisition but a matter of
courage, the courage to believe that you are free
already and to act on it."

I think only a pure, quiet, thoughtless mind can do
without believing anything or anybody.


From xan:

from Yvan Amar interview.
favorite bits

This has to be said. One can be Enlightened and at the same time be stuck in
egoic mechanisms of self-protection, when the Awakening doesn't touch all
parts of one's being. It's important to say here that the intelligence of the
Enlightenment brings to light only those places inside to which we have
opened the doors. Then all the work is to keep on opening the doors of the
dark areas for the light of Awakening to come in.

It is alive in me. In the heart of my being, I know I am Free. I know I am
Awakened, Enlightened, and undeniably Free. At the same time, I knew this was
not enough, and that there are places of consciousness which have to be
penetrated by that quality, that intelligence.

I understood that in India, an important thing is not only
meeting the guru, but extending the guru to all that exists, to meet the Real
in everything, everywhere. The great teaching there was to keep consciously
relating with everything. This is the choice to grow which is by its nature,
the nature of awareness. In Sanskrit, `Brahman' means `to grow' We see that
growing doesn't bring us to a reality - growing IS the reality.

When Christ says,"I am the way, the truth, the life." he does not say,"I am
the end of the way." He says, "I am the way." In fact, when we enter the
process of permanent growth and we don't try to reach a permanent
destination, a final goal that we call `Awakening' or something else, the
growth itself becomes the
living consciousness, and in that growth everything is included.

<Mary: Ramana said so.....Nisargadatta said so....Buddha said so...ACIM says
so.....They all pointed to some Absolute Truth that cannot be known Here...

~ They pointed to It because it can be known here.
Just not known as the mind thinks of knowing.


< neo: If it were so easy everyone would be enlightened. >

~ Actually it's too easy for most people to grasp... yet.


> neo: If pure awareness is the goal which is unchanging then how can there
be constant change and growth? Everyone seems to have a different
definition of enlightenment. To me it is the whole transformation. No
more ego, no more areas of darkness. To think anything less is just an
ego tool to protect itself while we go looking for endless areas of

>I don't know and my mind is fried right now.

~ There is deep transforming power in the acceptance of
the entirety of our paradoxical condition - awake as pure
awareness in this world of change and growth.

I am with you on not compromising with ego's maneuvers.
Ego knows nothing of the freedom of non-resistance,
nor of the joy.


Hans Deunhouwer wrote:

>I accept
> nobliss bliss : a bliss so deeply accepted that i am not aware of it.

Oh yes. Now that you mention it...


¤I am not so sure about this. With total extinction of the ego the body
¤becomes a pure voice for God. I think while so many great spiritual
¤teachers were great poets, knew a lot, and many other things they
¤never completely gave up their ego.

The analogy presenting itself is that of electric current and a lamp.
Although the current is of the same kind for all lamps, how they will shine
and in what color will depend on the type of lamp and how much current is
passed through it. 25 Watt is very little for an ordinary bulb but a modern
fluorescent lamp will shine very brightly at 5 Watt whereas a 1 watt
laser-beam will burn away a lot. The type of lamp is determined by the
ability to express love, compassion, wisdom etc. and could be said to
represent the visual part of the light whereas the invisible part
corresponds to Silence... So the issue of ego can be left out...


From Old Hag

Would you believe??

A couple months ago, when i was in hospital, after week of IV's, pokin's
and proddin's and other frankensteinien unmentionables, one morning old
woman had nothing to eat because of test, but test got postponed until
afternoon, and it turned out to be uncomfortable - ok, painful! and i
was hungry, and as they were wheeling me back to my room around 6:30 PM,
old woman was a bit...well, sorta like ole friend, Oscar the Grouch,
mumblin' disgruntled noises all the way down the hall.

Well, when they dumped me on my bed, they said, "oh, we forgot your
tray, it'll be another hour," and i growled again, then all of a sudden
looked up and i had left the tv on, and there in front of me, high on
the wall, was Fred and Ginger, dancing Cheek to Cheek!! i just began to
laugh! and sing! So on top of my lungs, i started belting out, "Heaven!
I'm in Heaven! And my heart beats so fast I can hardly speak, And i'm
findin' all the happiness i seek, When we're out together, dancin' Cheek
to Cheek!!" - How grand!! Yep, all them cherubim and seraphim were
joining in! The Music of the Spheres!

The rest of the stay in the hospital was a breeze - stick flabby body!
ok. jostle weary bones! ok. bring oscar cold beans and hot ice cream!
i was in heaven! with Fred and Ginger and all angels! Hey! Maybe you two
were there also! Sorta remember these two shadowy figures as i fell
asleep, singing softly in wrinkled ear, "The way you wear your hat, The
way you make that tea..."

Thanks for the memory....hmm, that sorta sounds familiar ,^))
It had to be you two,
love you both,
i never watch movies anymore, but will go rent that Mile one, just to
see that angel squeal at all the cheekin' goin' on. Thanks for letting
me know about that.

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