What is Nonduality

Experience Nonduality via Yoga Nidra

Starting February 1, 2018, Nonduality.com will operated by James Traverse.


All 5000+ pages on Nonduality.com may be accessed here and here.

Copyright 1997-2018 by Jerry Katz & James Traverse

Nonduality Salon (/\)

Highlights #57

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Ivan inscribed:

How can something be so completely unknowable
and so real at the same time......the mind shrinks away from
all thoughts, and the heart is filled with this almoust


The pencraft of Dan:

I hear your concern about the world situation. It is a
concerning situation to many, including me. The world is
consumed with conflict in many areas. Thus, every person who
comes to a truth that contains no conflict is contributing
by so doing. A person communicates this truth the best way
she or he knows how. Who will hear, how many will hear, and
how soon they will hear is not something that is controlled
by the message itself, but by the ability of individuals to
"hear" the message.

One could say the message comes in many forms, and is in
fact omnipresent. It is a matter of readiness and opening.


The break down of causal inferences and means for
explanation are freeing to awareness.


1) There is an ending of
the root of the separate self-sense, ending identification
awareness with the personal history, and 2) this ending
leave an "empty shell." It is a living movement of energy.
Awareness is moving very quickly and lightly, moment to
moment --
through the livingness of intantaneous non-self-conscious
beingness. The conscious mind is fully integrated with the
mind, which includes the body, and these are fully
with the "universe-mind." The net effect is no perception
of any
"integration" because no parts. A pervading emptiness.


For me, there's been a source of growth and deepening in
awareness that
comes through awareness itself. People may come and go,
human support may appear and be withdrawn. Awareness itself
doesn't come and go, and is never withdrawn.

Some individuals would substitute their words, beliefs,
personality for
awareness itself. That, to me, is the "subtle difficulty"
that isn't
always intially apparent. It can happen in a friendship or
relationship as well as a "spiritual" one. Once this
difficulty becomes
apparent, it seems movement away (from this person or
organization) is
movement into deepening Self awareness. The main thing for
me, whether
moving away or toward someone or something, is realization
that Self is
trustworthy, and that one's own awareness and perception are
the basis of trust. I've witnessed, in myself and others,
that the loss of an illusion in the "rightness" or
"perfectness" of another may lead to sadness and loss, yet
leads also to growth. Disillusionment is necessary, it
seems to me, to find That which isn't an illusion and which
can't be lost.


There is a spontaneous wisdom of the body that we are wise
not to interfere with.


I can see that "doing nothing" would lead to seeing clearly
what is occurring in an abusive situation as an adult and
that natural
physiological result would be to leave or end the abusive

Some thoughts here: It's common for victims of abuse (or
other trauma) to dissociate (distance and separate) from the
abusive experience at the often early age when it occurs,
and when they may be powerless to stop the abuse or leave
the situation. Boxers similarly learn to dissociate from
pain in the ring. They might be viewed as attempting a kind
of "doing nothing" as a means to cope. A problem is that
the extreme employment of this kind of "doing nothing" with
abuse can make it difficult to re-engage with feelings,
relationships and to develop a sense of one's whole being.

Abuse is the ultimate duality experience. Dissociation is
an attempt at
self-healing from the results of duality and coping from a
position of
no-harm. Dissociation seems related to creativity and
spiritual opening. However, such dissociation hasn't fully
resolved the self-other conflict, because the abusive
experience must be treated as "other" to dissociate. To
fully disidentify with any conditional aspect of experience,
such as the dichotomy of perpetrator and victim, awareness
seems to need to be able to accept what happened, that it
happened, and that it had an effect.

The "self" needs to accept how "it" (I) has been affected
before it can
eventually release itself from its "self". The ultimate
disidentification is the full allowance of experiential
reality without conditionality, thus, no "self" to try to
alter the experiential reality that is. The self needs to
acknowledge the hurt, anger, and in some cases, horror of
what happened before "moving on" and ultimately, full
disidentification, is really possible.


>From the oeuvre of Tim G:

There is a true merging with the Divine (actually, a deep
knowing beyond the level of mind that one has always BEEN
the Divine); living only in the present moment (without
memory) is more of a "symptom" of realization than
realization itself (imo). As the Absolute is timeless,
knowing of That will result in timeless living.


I previously posted the lyrics to the song "Silent Lucidity"
Queensryche. As with many creative works, this song is very
"subconsciously" nondual. Let me point out a few things -

Take these two portions of the lyrics together:

Wide awake you face the day
Your dream is over... or has it just begun?
Master of illusion, can you realize
Your dream's alive, you can be the guide

This is very reminiscent of the Buddhist perspectives -
being here and now aware of all actions (mindfulness),
mastering the illusions of duality, and the suggestion that
being *wide awake* is being alive.

If you open your mind for me
You won't rely on open eyes to see
The walls you built within
Come tumbling down, and a new world will begin

What more can be said? The "walls within" represent the
ego, and we all
know what that "new world" can be. Look at the deeper
meaning of "see" in the second verse above.

[Visualize your dream]
[Record it in the present tense]
[Put it into a permanent form]
[If you persist in your efforts]
[You can achieve dream control]
[Dream control]
[How's that then, better?]

[Hug me]

No, it wasn't better. The child within needs a hug.
"Record it in the
present tense" is a very powerful statement, and "put it in
a permanent
form" could be reminiscent of finding that which does not
change among
things that change (the Hindu perspective of Brahman).
Efforts at dream
control, good enough? No way. Hug me.

There's a place I like to hide
A doorway that I run through in the night
Like to hide, but don't need to hide (read on)...

It's a place where you will learn
To face your fears, retrace the years
And ride the whims of your mind

Doesn't sound like a hiding place to me. Sounds like the
process," which always involves facing fears at some point.
"A place I
like to hide" is a disguise for something else; a place
where one faces
their fears is not a hiding place.

This song won several Emmy awards, I believe. Both the
lyrics and the
music are excellent examples of what can be done when
genuine creativity is applied in the musical field.

Music hasn't entirely died in the 90's (although it seems so
at times).
Check out http://www.mp3.com
for many unsigned artists with free music to download (and
preview first with RealPlayer). There's some amazing stuff
still coming out of garages.


>From the fresh quill of Xan:

-People are going to go into whatever they feel is
worthwhile whether the primary is present in their awareness
or not. That's why my life and my communications are really
only about me, not anybody else.

-It's about me being present to deep silence, regardless of
what might come out in expression - clear, unclear,
non-dual, dual, joyous, sad, irritated, peaceful.

-As I see it there appears to be a variety of choices about
how to be in this situation of human life, but in actuality
there is only the multiplicity or the simplicity. This
moment now I Am.


I've been reflecting on the recent warnings of caution about
organizations which can undermine rather than support Self
discovery. The means for discrimination lies not in what is
said or done on the surface. These may make one think what
is offered is more or less beneficial. The real test is in
the subtle realms of knowing - intuition.

The same is true with individuals. Someone may look good
and even initially feel good, but when there is a growing
sense that this connection is undermining while appearing to
be supporting ... well it's time to head for the door.


Giving up all expectation of *getting* allows the
opportunity to notice
that anything one might have wanted is here already, fully
in mySelf.

Then again, if a truck is running over your foot it is wise
to move away.


Why would we presume to live up to an ideal of detachment
any more than to an ideal of helpfulness? What is eternally
love in/as us is not an ideal but reality, and the more our
awareness is absorbed in it the fewer ideas we have about
how we should or will be as Its expression.

Out of Marcia's inkwell:

I had an interesting experience tonight. I met with my
friends for dinner and a reading. We usually meet every
Friday night and a good part of Saturday. We had not
met for two weeks because several people were gone
on vacation. I was listening to one person tell of his
vacation and I began to notice that I had that feeling
permeating me of self pity. My life was such that I could
not do something like that and even if I could no one
would want to do it with me type of thing. I was getting
a good dose of one of my regular habitual states of
self pity. Normally I am either in it all the way or I begin
as it makes me uncomfortable to try and fix it in some
way. I try to rearrange the picture or analyze the situation
or repress the feeling or in some way to make it stop.
Tonight I watched myself pop behind it and just let the
state be. I was living my life through the state. I was not
the state but I was looking through it. It is hard to put
into words but it was a very different experience for me.

Later on after I had watched myself cycle through several
other states in much the same manner, I began to describe
the experience to the other people in the room. We were
discussing self remembering at the time. This seems more
than self remembering as I was both remembering who I
really am and staying connected through the states of my
habitual reactions at the same time.

Reminds me of the old Beatle song..."I'm looking through
you, what can I see?"
We all talked about that from this position one would be
able to read other's states much more clearly as one was
reading one's own from a detached perspective.


The longhand of Aleks:

there is a person who is appearing a certain way, i appear
another-- who knows how we interpret each other? maybe we
decide to head for the door together at the same time, and
have a point on which we agree. .. it's a judgement call.

from my reading this evening, ran across this from ramesh
balsekar, which speaks to my truth:

he is asked about false teachers.

"who produced these false teachers? who makes them do what
they do? is it some power other than that which produced
saintly people? are not even these wild spirits part of the
functioning of totality?"

this brings me back home on the issue. ramesh is often
restating that the instant we discuss beauty, ugliness
exists --his point being transcending the duality of

so what do we *do* ? um. . .maybe nothing. i have gotten
in my silly youth and also my extended childhood caught up
with what might be questionable teaching and teacher along
these lines. when the time came for me to bolt and quit the
scene, the door was opened for me and the time was right.
in a very real sense, it was the false teachers that turned
me inward and made me *stop* being a miserable seeker.

or -- so what do we do? *leave* -- but that will be a
compassionate and
loving decision, not a judgement call. just my two cents.
:) i have one dollar left. ..


Dan had scratched:
The "false teachers" manipulate by using the person's desire
do something, or believe in someone who can do something.
nothing is to have no agenda requiring investment in a
person, and no need to "get" something from someone who can
something or "provide" something.

thanks dan-- this had not dawned on me. we people have some
power working through us, don't we? :) i relish anything
that moves one away from the perception of victimization.
when discussing cults, there is sometimes this talk of
brainwashing and mind control. well, as you say and
describe, doing nothing empowers. saw a thing on
oprah--the topic was sexual abuse, but i think applies to
any situation in which someone's trying to control body or
thought. the guest said if you have to say no a second
time, the person is trying to control you. that would be,
to me, an indication that i should toggle to "doing


to me compassion means a nonjudgemental awareness of
everyone as one. that's me, homeless with two kids and no
i.d. so i can't get on government relief, etc. it also
extends to the fact that if donald trump's jaguar broke down
outside my trailer, i'd fix it for him.
self helping self and versa vice-a. . .

who is this society? :) seriously, i am quite aware that
poverty is being criminalized in the big city-- homeless
people harassed and murdered, jailed on bogus charges. i
just don't focus there any more, it's become more heart to
heart and moved away from anger and feelings of injustice.
and first and foremost, strenthening myself so that my
extended helping hand is strong, firm and able to truly
give. truth is, the gifts far exceed anything i've ever

i've learned a bunch from ram dass' writings. have you read
"how can i
help?" i got much from this one.


The coup de plume of Kristie

I have lived and "worshipped" among Native Americans for
quite some time. I am, through my experience and long time
interest in the fundamentally different nature of
consciousness of tribal cultures as compared to western,
moderne cultures, always struck by the degree to which
western mind succumbs to the need and desire to label and
understand people according to cultural norms and standards.
I am not suggesting tribal people do not do this, and, it is
difficult to judge tribal affects by Native Americans as
they are a culture much damaged by time and history,
fragmented between old modalities and functions of
consciousness and the influence of western thought patterns.
But, among Indians who have hung on dearly to, what I
believe is a non-dual consciousness, generally at the cost
of much pain and dissociation
in their lives - including severe alcoholism and distancing
from society -
there is a decidedly different orientation in how they
relate to "others." I cannot explain this very well; it is
much like trying to imagine a fourth primary color, to
imagine a consciousness entirely different from our own,
removed even from the seeds that inform our own movement in
a direction "opposite" to our cultural meta-ethics.....My
point is, that it is possible to relate to other people with
entirely no aspect of discernment, perception or the
evaluative of both, judgement, that leaves each free in the
mind of the pereceiver to be the messiah to which you
refer...not seeing pain or suffering or homelessness or loss
or unhealthy ego or dysfunction, seeing simply being. The
world calls us always to judge and evaluate; it is difficult
to explain to the judicial system or others why one has
friends who are "criminals" or other social rejects...to
tell them..."they are the messiah....I do not share a life
agenda with them...but I "see" them and it brings me joy..."
Ah, they want to lock you up or take away your kids for that


I think you are right, that to change the world we need only
ourselves. Also, the world doesn't need to be changed; it is
the way it
needs to be to accomplish the spiritual tasks that
individuals and societies need to accomplish at this point
in time, even though time is an illusion....

I also find that I am less and less interested in dealing
with the problems of the poor at a personal level, with
personal people, on the one hand, and, OTOH have a huge
desire and need to explain the nature of that experience. It
is not what we think it is. I worked with the poor, poor
long before I became homeless. The nature of the problem is
not what I thought it was, and all the solutions I thought
were obvious as a service provider, are not the obvious

So, I guess my question or focus is this:1) how has our
experience with
Awareness affected our personal relationships and our
relationships with the "state of the world." 2) Is it a
truism that personal movement towards realization moves us
away from the realm of desiring or needing to "do unto the
least of us what you have done to me." 3) What does
compassion mean...what place does it have in a society that
legalistically and judicially mitigates against it...(this
morning I had a talk with our town sheriff...we have a
homeless woman with two children - she was just run out of
her house by a battering man....I offered to take them in
for a couple of days....sheriff said, "bad idea, she may
have drug needles in her possession...if I come to your
house and she has needles I'll have to arrest you too...) 4)
What focus would you suggest?


Nondual fiber, moving through my system inch by inch. Yum.


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Nonduality: What is Nonduality

What is Nonduality

Experience Nonduality via Yoga Nidra

Starting February 1, 2018, Nonduality.com will operated by James Traverse.


All 5000+ pages on Nonduality.com may be accessed here and here.

Copyright 1997-2018 by Jerry Katz & James Traverse