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Excerpts from I Am That by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj - Part 12

read by James Traverse

Dialogues of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

12. The Person is not Reality

Kindly tell us how you realised.

I met my Guru when I was 34 and realised by 37.

What happened? What was the change?

Pleasure and pain lost their sway over me. I was free from desire and fear. I found myself full,
needing nothing. I saw that in the ocean of pure awareness, on the surface of the universal
consciousness, the numberless waves of the phenomenal worlds arise and subside beginninglessly
and endlessly. As consciousness, they are all me. As events they are all mine. There is a
mysterious power that looks after them. That power is awareness, Self, Life, God, whatever name
you give it. It is the foundation, the ultimate support of all that is, just like gold is the basis for all gold
jewellery. And it is so intimately ours! Abstract the name and shape from the jewellery and the gold
becomes obvious. Be free of name and form and of the desires and fears they create, then what


Yes, the void remains. But the void is full to the brim. It is the eternal potential as consciousness
is the eternal actual.

By potential you mean the future?

Past, present and future -- they are all there. And infinitely more.

But since the void is void, it is of little use to us.

How can you say so? Without breach in continuity how can there be rebirth? Can there be
renewal without death? Even the darkness of sleep is refreshing and rejuvenating. Without death
we would have been bogged up for ever in eternal senility.

Is there no such thing as immortality?

When life and death are seen as essential to each other, as two aspects of one being, that is
immortality. To see the end in the beginning and beginning in the end is the intimation of eternity.
Definitely, immortality is not continuity. Only the process of change continues. Nothing lasts.

Awareness lasts?

Awareness is not of time. Time exists in consciousness only. Beyond consciousness where are
time and space?

Within the field of your consciousness there is your body also.

Of course. But the idea 'my body', as different from other bodies, is not there. To me it is 'a
body', not 'my body', 'a mind', not 'my mind'. The mind looks after the body all right, I need not
interfere. What needs be done is being done, in the normal and natural way.

You may not be quite conscious of your physiological functions, but when it comes to thoughts and
feelings, desires and fears you become acutely self-conscious. To me these too are largely
unconscious. I find myself talking to people, or doing things quite correctly and appropriately,
without being very much conscious of them. It looks as if I live my physical, waking life
automatically, reacting spontaneously and accurately.

Does this spontaneous response come as a result of realisation, or by training?

Both. Devotion to you goal makes you live a clean and orderly life, given to search for truth and
to helping people, and realisation makes noble virtue easy and spontaneous, by removing for good
the obstacles in the shape of desires and fears and wrong ideas.

Donít you have desires and fears any more?

My destiny was to be born a simple man, a commoner, a humble tradesman, with little of formal
education. My life was the common kind, with common desires and fears. When, through my faith in
my teacher and obedience to his words, I realised my true being, I left behind my human nature to
look after itself, until its destiny is exhausted. Occasionally an old reaction, emotional or mental,
happens in the mind, but it is at once noticed and discarded. After all, as long as one is bur-dened
with a person, one is exposed to its idiosyncrasies and habits.

Are you not afraid of death?

I am dead already.

In what sense?

I am double dead. Not only am I dead to my body, but to my mind too.

Well, you do not look dead at all!

Thatís what you say! You seem to know my state better than I do!

Sorry. But I just do not understand. You say you are bodyless and mindless, while I see you
very much alive and articulate.

A tremendously complex work is going on all the time in your brain and body, are you conscious
of it? Not at all. Yet for an outsider all seems to be going on intelligently and purposefully. Why not
admit that oneís entire personal life may sink largely below the threshold of consciousness and yet
proceed sanely and smoothly?

Is it normal?

What is normal? Is your life -- obsessed by desires and fears, full of strife and struggle,
meaningless and joyless -- normal? To be acutely conscious of your body is it normal? To be torn
by feelings, tortured by thoughts: is it normal? A healthy body, a healthy mind live largely
unperceived by their owner; only occasionally, through pain or suffering they call for attention and
insight. Why not extend the same to the entire personal life? One can function rightly, responding
well and fully to whatever happens, without having to bring it into the focus of awareness. When self-
control becomes second nature, awareness shifts its focus to deeper levels of existence and action.

Donít you become a robot?

What harm is there in making automatic, what is habitual and repetitive? It is automatic anyhow.
But when it is also chaotic, it causes pain and suffering and calls for attention. The entire purpose of
a clean and well-ordered life is to liberate man from the thraldom of chaos and the burden of sorrow.

You seem to be in favour of a computerised life.

What is wrong with a life which is free from problems? Personality is merely a reflection of the
real. Why should not the reflection be true to the original as a matter of course, automatically? Need
the person have any designs of its own? The life of which it is an expression will guide it. Once you
realise that the person is merely a shadow of the reality, but not reality itself, you cease to fret and
worry. You agree to be guided from within and life becomes a journey into the unknown.